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Old 10-27-2013, 06:47 PM
 
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France, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Romania, Argentina, Chile, Canada, Australia, China, Thailand, India, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, and overseas tropical regions of France usually forgotten not included in the same country.

How easy is this for someone from North America to move to those countries said in this topic and live there, especially in terms of migration laws, working laws, expat foreign scene, marrying someone from there, retirement, family relative connections to another country, and how possible it is to move and live there?


Around 2 years later in the future, after some of my earliest 20s, I plan to move from Seattle to San Francisco-Berkeley California. Around 5 years later when I am entering my late 20s, and after finishing the rest of college, and early career, I would love to try out international living somewhere in the world in another country.

I am finishing a double major in college: Architecture, and Computer Information Technology, and I have an A/A- gpa. I have past part time job experience in working in a bookstore, technological store, architecture internship work, international volunteering in an environmental project, volunteering internship in furniture making, architect portfolio, and some recommendation referrals from teachers and people from part time jobs/internships. I have a pretty impressive resume. I know I would find an upper middle class career after college in one of my double majors, and I also am considering opening up an independent cafť bar as a 3rd career possibility in my life.

The countries I would enjoy living in are: France, Austria, Switzerland, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Romania, Argentina, Chile, Canada, Australia, China, Thailand, India, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, and overseas tropical regions of France usually not included in mainland France. *This is mostly not in exact order, and mostly in continental order.



I want to see other peopleís opinions for where I have the highest possibility of being able to move in one of those countries. This is including if I have to find employment there. There is always marrying someone from one of those countries, retirement much later in life 50 years later, visiting instead of living there, and some family connections in some of Europe.

You could always send a short, brief polite, friendly response, and just responding to some questions in this topic.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,557 posts, read 5,130,825 times
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Vienna, Austria:

Expat Community:
Huge. Mainly because of the UN, OPEC, OSCE and many embassies.

How easy is it to move there as an American:
Rather difficult. You are competing with Austrians and citizens of other member states of the EU. It'll be tough to find an employer who's willing to go through the hassle and get you a Visa.
For more infos: Welcome to the Federal Government

Marrying someone from there:
Totally depends on you and your personality.

IT/Architecture double major:
We have way too many architecture students here. Also, you won't be allowed to work as an architect without a Masters degree. That's also gonna be a major concern for you:
Technische Universitšt Wien :*Recognition of Foreign Diplomas & Licenses
The IT degree is probably a bit more interesting for future employers, and again: most of your competitors will probably hold a masters degree, although it's not a requirement to get a job. The bachelors degrees are just pretty new to us and not totally accepted by the public yet.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, Quťbec
21,961 posts, read 27,390,495 times
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You had Canada on your list, so here are my answers for Americans wanting to be an "expat" here.

migration laws - even though it is right next door and very similar, it's not as easy as you might think for an American to move to Canada; basically you have to go through the same process as everyone else, and Americans are not necessarily picked ahead of people from China or Brazil

working laws - quite similar to the US, although depending on where you are in the country there might be a bit of an adjustment to a work-to-live vs. a live-to-work attitude; there are more work-to-live areas in Canada than in the U.S. that's for sure, although you can find the opposite side of the coin as well in places like Toronto, Calgary, etc.

expat foreign scene - most Americans living in Canada tend to blend in with the rest of the general population, and don't really hang out with Americans or seek out fellow Americans as friends; the one exception might be areas like Quebec where there aren't always that many anglos around, and so they might socialize more between themselves or make a point to do so - in places like these Americans might socialize with other Americans plus English Canadians, Brits, Australians, etc.

marrying someone from there - not really a big issue, Americans generally fit in extremely well with Canadians (some Canadians may not even pick up that you are Americans); the only issues you might have is if you're a Tea Party-type and very outspoken about it.

retirement - Canada is not a big retirement destination and so moving to Canada as a retiree is not something many people do; most Canadians do end up having a reasonably comfortable retirement through a mix of government pensions, employer pensions and personal savings.

family relative connections to another country - pretty easy from Canada if you are an American.

moving and living there - as I said, the paperwork and approvals is more complex than you might think (especially if you don't have a job already lined up), but otherwise in most of Canada it's not a big adaptation for an American; it's not exactly the same, but close enough that you probably won't even feel like an expat at all.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
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If you don't have a sponsorship from an in-country corporation who will hire yuou or an international agency who will place you, there is almost no chance of an American being granted a long-term or residence visa. The reason for that is the overwhelming number of American health-care refugees who have no insurance and cannot get any for various reasons, and cannot afford the huge cost . Americans are trying to retire in any country that will have them, and nearly are saying No.

Even the cost of ordinary tourist entry visas are up in the $100 range for an increasing number of countries, because of what is called reciprocity. They charge Americans the same vise fee that the US charges visitors from their country. Paraguay, Bolivia, Chile, Argentina and Brazil have single-entry visa reciprocity fees currently around $160, while Canadiians can just turn up at the border and get stamped in free.

Your only realistic chance is to find one that does not have a punitive visa policy and will let you enter as a tourist for 3 or 6 months at a time, and keep making a visa run to the nearest border. You can only stay in Europe for 90 days in any 180-day period. It's pretty common practice in Thailand and Malaysia. The other Asian countries on your list would require flying in and out. I've done it in Chile, but I think they are getting fussier about Americans.

Last edited by jtur88; 10-28-2013 at 05:39 PM..
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 18,823,188 times
Reputation: 11103
Look, you're not even considering some countries that could offer the most to you, and adding countries that frankly speaking, doesn't want you.

Countries like China and India will never hire you, or grant you a permanent visa. You're competing with millions of locals who know the culture and language inside out, and how thigs work there. And if you even get to a job interview, nobody's gonna hire you. They don't care about your A's, they're hiring a local, even if he's less qualified. Because the man upper in the hierarchy said so, or they're returning a favor, or it's someone's relative. I'm using 'he' on a purpose, because that's a 99% probability for that. And remember, there's always a huge mass of people who are ready work the same position as you for a lot less, working a lot harder, and making a lot less trouble.

Your only chance is to find a Western company with Western employees.

About working laws and laws in general, there might be some, but they change with the bureaucrat you're dealing with or the thickness of the envelope you're handing them. Without knowing how the societies work, you're being on the mercy of the bureaucracy and law enforcement. You might be able to open a independent cafť in Vietnam and survive, but if someone doesn't like you, or you're being too stiff competition, the police might shut you down on any reason.

About marriage, I don't know. We are speaking about very hierarchial and conformist cultures here. Arranged marriages are still everyday practice in most of those Asian countries more or less, also sometimes in Japan and South Korea. And in many situations, marrying an white westerner with a different religion is completely out of the question. Even if a girl would fall in love with you, but the father says 'no', then she's not marrying you.

About expat community, well, your social circle will mostly consist of them. The locals think you're an outsider, and despite being very friendly towards you, they don't want to have anything to do with you more than necessary. Or maybe, but that requires a 15 year training and assimilation. As an example I could tell about one I know who lived in Hong Kong for 10 years or so. She socialized with the other Europeans and Australians, and the local population could just as well be from another planet. And the feeling was mutual.

Last edited by Rozenn; 10-30-2013 at 03:01 PM.. Reason: Unnecessary
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post

About marriage, I don't know. We are speaking about very hierarchial and conformist cultures here.
Lots of girls have been disowned by their families. Many don't have very savory backgrounds (bar girls, artistes, hookers, etc.), but are probably still more conervative than proper American girls, and easy to meet. Also, divorcees and widows are, in some countries, considered unmarriageable, and foreign men are all they've got to choose from.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:41 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,859,454 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
Vienna, Austria:

Expat Community:
Huge. Mainly because of the UN, OPEC, OSCE and many embassies.

How easy is it to move there as an American:
Rather difficult. You are competing with Austrians and citizens of other member states of the EU. It'll be tough to find an employer who's willing to go through the hassle and get you a Visa.
For more infos: Welcome to the Federal Government

Marrying someone from there:
Totally depends on you and your personality.

IT/Architecture double major:
We have way too many architecture students here. Also, you won't be allowed to work as an architect without a Masters degree. That's also gonna be a major concern for you:
Technische Universitšt Wien :*Recognition of Foreign Diplomas & Licenses
The IT degree is probably a bit more interesting for future employers, and again: most of your competitors will probably hold a masters degree, although it's not a requirement to get a job. The bachelors degrees are just pretty new to us and not totally accepted by the public yet.

Austria is high on my list for possible countries to move in away from USA, in my top 10 all over the world, and 2nd place in all of Europe. I would love to experience international living for at least a few years of my life or a longer time.

Well, I might actually be able to qualify for EU citizenship just because my entire family is from Romania, my parents and sibling were born in Romania 25 years ago before moving to USA, and almost all of my family members continue to live in Romania with the exception of one parent and sibling.

I wasnít born there and I donít really feel I am Romanian in ethnic heritage, I feel more Western European. I have some opposition against the EU: European Union system I said in a recent topic. However, whatever it takes to get EU citizenship. lol

This seems much more easy and possible for people with official EU citizenship to have freedom in moving to most European countries compared to people just having American citizenship. I should try to get this EU citizenship within 5 years right after I move from Seattle to San Francisco California, and then somewhere international in my early career years of my life.

I am successful with college, I have an impressive resume, a perfect double college major, and 3 main future career possibilities. I know I am going to find an opportunity to live somewhere international in one of the 27 countries I said in this topic.

I am already getting a Masterís degree in those college majors, so I donít know why you thought it was only a bachelorís degree? The careers in Computer Information Technology seems to have more opportunities with foreign expats compared to Architects in Austria based on your advice. In Austria, I would live in Vienna or Innsbruck based on first choice recommendation, and then maybe Salzburg, Graz, Linz, or somewhere else in Austrian Alps away from Innsbruck.

There is always the option of living in another country without working and having a career over there such as buying or renting a second home, retirement 50 years later, visiting a region of a country for more than 1 month, almost feels like living there when visiting for a long time, or a wife and marrying someone from one of those 27 countries.

Last edited by Thepastpresentandfuture; 11-03-2013 at 06:02 PM..
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:51 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,859,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
You had Canada on your list, so here are my answers for Americans wanting to be an "expat" here.

migration laws - even though it is right next door and very similar, it's not as easy as you might think for an American to move to Canada; basically you have to go through the same process as everyone else, and Americans are not necessarily picked ahead of people from China or Brazil

working laws - quite similar to the US, although depending on where you are in the country there might be a bit of an adjustment to a work-to-live vs. a live-to-work attitude; there are more work-to-live areas in Canada than in the U.S. that's for sure, although you can find the opposite side of the coin as well in places like Toronto, Calgary, etc.

expat foreign scene - most Americans living in Canada tend to blend in with the rest of the general population, and don't really hang out with Americans or seek out fellow Americans as friends; the one exception might be areas like Quebec where there aren't always that many anglos around, and so they might socialize more between themselves or make a point to do so - in places like these Americans might socialize with other Americans plus English Canadians, Brits, Australians, etc.

marrying someone from there - not really a big issue, Americans generally fit in extremely well with Canadians (some Canadians may not even pick up that you are Americans); the only issues you might have is if you're a Tea Party-type and very outspoken about it.

retirement - Canada is not a big retirement destination and so moving to Canada as a retiree is not something many people do; most Canadians do end up having a reasonably comfortable retirement through a mix of government pensions, employer pensions and personal savings.

family relative connections to another country - pretty easy from Canada if you are an American.

moving and living there - as I said, the paperwork and approvals is more complex than you might think (especially if you don't have a job already lined up), but otherwise in most of Canada it's not a big adaptation for an American; it's not exactly the same, but close enough that you probably won't even feel like an expat at all.

I have nothing against Canada. I would enjoy living in Vancouver British Columbia, or Montreal Quebec. However, Canada barely qualified in my topic for a “foreign” international country to move in, mostly because Canada might be too similar to USA, and the immigration process for Americans to move in Canada is more comprehensive than expected.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:51 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,200,755 times
Reputation: 11624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Look, you're not even considering some countries that could offer the most to you, and adding countries that frankly speaking, doesn't want you.

Countries like China and India will never hire you, or grant you a permanent visa. You're competing with millions of locals who know the culture and language inside out, and how thigs work there. And if you even get to a job interview, nobody's gonna hire you. They don't care about your A's, they're hiring a local, even if he's less qualified. Because the man upper in the hierarchy said so, or they're returning a favor, or it's someone's relative. I'm using 'he' on a purpose, because that's a 99% probability for that. And remember, there's always a huge mass of people who are ready work the same position as you for a lot less, working a lot harder, and making a lot less trouble.

Your only chance is to find a Western company with Western employees.

About working laws and laws in general, there might be some, but they change with the bureaucrat you're dealing with or the thickness of the envelope you're handing them. Without knowing how the societies work, you're being on the mercy of the bureaucracy and law enforcement. You might be able to open a independent cafť in Vietnam and survive, but if someone doesn't like you, or you're being too stiff competition, the police might shut you down on any reason.

About marriage, I don't know. We are speaking about very hierarchial and conformist cultures here. Arranged marriages are still everyday practice in most of those Asian countries more or less, also sometimes in Japan and South Korea. And in many situations, marrying an white westerner with a different religion is completely out of the question. Even if a girl would fall in love with you, but the father says 'no', then she's not marrying you.

About expat community, well, your social circle will mostly consist of them. The locals think you're an outsider, and despite being very friendly towards you, they don't want to have anything to do with you more than necessary. Or maybe, but that requires a 15 year training and assimilation. As an example I could tell about one I know who lived in Hong Kong for 10 years or so. She socialized with the other Europeans and Australians, and the local population could just as well be from another planet. And the feeling was mutual.
Considering the Asian countries, the most usual working capacity you'd see a Westerner working there is as an English teacher for a reason. The local job market outside of English as Second Language training is very hard to access. Another would be an interoffice transfer. Even in these countries people from other parts of the region are not well regarded or wanted. Japan is known for not being very nice to other Asians, especially considering that most of its illegal immigrants are people from East Asia and SEA. The Washington Post published a map on racism around the world, and South Korea came at or near the top. Whether this is against all people or just other Asians (like in Japan, apparently) remains to be seen.
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:57 PM
 
6,066 posts, read 10,859,454 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Look, you're not even considering some countries that could offer the most to you, and adding countries that frankly speaking, doesn't want you.

Countries like China and India will never hire you, or grant you a permanent visa. You're competing with millions of locals who know the culture and language inside out, and how thigs work there. And if you even get to a job interview, nobody's gonna hire you. They don't care about your A's, they're hiring a local, even if he's less qualified. Because the man upper in the hierarchy said so, or they're returning a favor, or it's someone's relative. I'm using 'he' on a purpose, because that's a 99% probability for that. And remember, there's always a huge mass of people who are ready work the same position as you for a lot less, working a lot harder, and making a lot less trouble.

Your only chance is to find a Western company with Western employees.

About working laws and laws in general, there might be some, but they change with the bureaucrat you're dealing with or the thickness of the envelope you're handing them. Without knowing how the societies work, you're being on the mercy of the bureaucracy and law enforcement. You might be able to open a independent cafť in Vietnam and survive, but if someone doesn't like you, or you're being too stiff competition, the police might shut you down on any reason.

About marriage, I don't know. We are speaking about very hierarchial and conformist cultures here. Arranged marriages are still everyday practice in most of those Asian countries more or less, also sometimes in Japan and South Korea. And in many situations, marrying an white westerner with a different religion is completely out of the question. Even if a girl would fall in love with you, but the father says 'no', then she's not marrying you.

About expat community, well, your social circle will mostly consist of them. The locals think you're an outsider, and despite being very friendly towards you, they don't want to have anything to do with you more than necessary. Or maybe, but that requires a 15 year training and assimilation. As an example I could tell about one I know who lived in Hong Kong for 10 years or so. She socialized with the other Europeans and Australians, and the local population could just as well be from another planet. And the feeling was mutual.
I apologize I donít agree with almost anything you said in this topic. Its almost like this is in Finnish and not in English. lol I donít have so much negative cynicism about most of the world outside your exaggerated precious corner of Europe, and I donít have so much endless idealism about Europe, especially Finland.

Finland does not qualify on my list of 27 countries I want to move in all over the world. Please donít take it personally if someone is not enchanted with Finland.


Donít you find it ironic a place such as Vietnam compared to Finland has Infinitely better coastline beaches, Tropical scenery not existing in Finland, No anemic short summers or harsh endless cold winters, Mountainous nature, More unique scenery, Better food scene, Much better independent cafť bar scene in Saigon, More variety in architecture, Temples, Skyscrapers high-rise buildings, Probably more relaxed easygoing lifestyle, More interesting people scene, More foreign exotic, Interesting forms of spirituality/religion Buddhism not existing in Finland, Lower cost of living/more affordable, Intriguing historical events with France, More vibrant nightlife, More ethnic cultural festivals events, offering all of these impressive characteristics not in Finland, and Vietnam appearing more interesting and unique compared to Finland. I could show you more than 20 impressive scenic photos of Vietnam and you would never believe this exists in a region of the world you don't know anything about.

Itís not just about sterile economics, or cynicism about the world related to economics. There is a life outside of some economic statistics.

This is about all 27 of these countries+regions of the world: France, Austria, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands, Belgium, Romania, Argentina, Chile, Canada, Australia, China, Thailand, India, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, and overseas tropical regions of France usually forgotten not included in the same country. Donít make this about 1 country that is lower on the list or an overly nationalistic obsession with Finland.
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