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Old 07-28-2021, 03:00 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,230 posts, read 1,717,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Sure, there’s definitely an element of that. Being in a large country, especially one as influential as the US, does create an insular mindset. Interestingly enough, one of the major complaints I’ve heard from continental Europeans (French, Dutch, German...) is how detached the UK feels from the rest of Europe (culturally speaking).

Then, Brexit happened. The UK isn't in Europe anymore.
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:15 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,187 posts, read 13,477,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Sure, there’s definitely an element of that. Being in a large country, especially one as influential as the US, does create an insular mindset. Interestingly enough, one of the major complaints I’ve heard from continental Europeans (French, Dutch, German...) is how detached the UK feels from the rest of Europe (culturally speaking).
The UK has a different culture, although it's not that indistinguishable from some other European countries and most European countries have their own cultures that are separate to each other.

The Dutch for instance, enjoy similar sports, and not just football, they also enjoy darts and even embrace cricket to an extent. whilst enjoying beer and beer festivals, along with the likes of the Germans and Danes.

There are always lots of Dutch fans at the big international darts tournaments in England, such as the BDO World Darts Championship at Lakeside in Surrey and the PDC World Darts Championship at Alexandria Palace in London.

The Dutch also play Rugby Union, however it's the France that is the other big Rugby nation in Europe after the UK & Ireland, with Italy also forming part of the six nations ruby union championship.

Part of the reasons for the UK's relationship with Europe are historic, however Europe and it's cities have always played an important part in our history, and the fact that we are so close to Europe and visit it or even have family living in other parts of Europe does influence our world view and that of London as a city.

London also attracts a lot of European visitors, although the right to automatically live and work here has now been replaced by a more selective policy based on skills and contribution to society, although temporary working status and student status etc are still recognised.

Whether the unaccountable undemocratic power hungry EU is the way forward is increasingly dividing opinion, and not just in the UK but across Europe and countries such as the Danes, and other Scandinavian nations, we well as Eastern Europe and parts of Southern Europe are equally wary of the EU.

It also should be noted that many politicians in Europe and this has been clearly seen under Macron's tenure as French leader.

Last edited by Brave New World; 07-28-2021 at 04:01 AM..
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:53 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,187 posts, read 13,477,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Then, Brexit happened. The UK isn't in Europe anymore.
I think you will find there is a big difference between Europe and the EU.

There are other European countries that are not in the EU, but are European.

The EU is a transnational organisation, it is not a nation or continent.

If the US left the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, would it therefore no longer be in North America.
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Old 07-28-2021, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,230 posts, read 1,717,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
I think you will find there is a big difference between Europe and the EU.

There are other European countries that are not in the EU, but are European.

The EU is a transnational organisation, it is not a nation or continent.

If the US left the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, would it therefore no longer be in North America.

Geographically, Europe is just a Peninsula of Asia. Eurasia is a continent, Europe isn't.


Modern definition of Europe is more related to politics, economy, culture and people rather than location.


Mexico is geographically part of North America, but most people consider U.S and Canada to be North America and Mexico Latin America.
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Old 07-28-2021, 04:51 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,187 posts, read 13,477,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Geographically, Europe is just a Peninsula of Asia. Eurasia is a continent, Europe isn't.

Modern definition of Europe is more related to politics, economy, culture and people rather than location.

Mexico is geographically part of North America, but most people consider U.S and Canada to be North America and Mexico Latin America.
Europe is a geographic Continent, in the same way that North and South America are continents, despite being part of a larger land mass.

In terms of geography, the UK is part of Europe.

In terms of politics, economy, culture and people, Europe is divided in to different countries.

The EU is neither a geographic area or a country, it is a transnational organisation.

Norway is not in the EU, does that make it no longer part of Europe, whilst Switzerland is also not part of the EU, and other countries such as Sweden are thinking of leaving.

Whether or not you are part of a transnational organisation does not effect your geographic position, whilst politically and culturally Europe is divided in to nation states, with unique cultures.

The US is usually quick to recognise the different cultures from Italian to Irish to French to British to Greek etc etc.

Last edited by Brave New World; 07-28-2021 at 05:04 AM..
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Old 07-28-2021, 06:14 AM
 
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It’s important to draw a line between what Europe stands for as a continent vs what political institutions like the EU represent. Cyprus is a member of the EU, despite being geographically located in Asia.
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Old 07-29-2021, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Born + raised SF Bay; Tyler, TX now WNY
8,504 posts, read 4,747,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Sadly, I think 9/11 was a big wake up call, as until then NYC and the US seemed to be in their own universe, and nothing outside of that universe seemed to matter.

This is in contrast to most European cities such as London, a city that dates back to the Romans and which has faced numerous wars and even invasions, and was also at one time the capital of an Empire.

London was always aware of other European cities, whether it was Rome and the Catholic Church, which Henry VIII famously fell out with, or the constant battles with France and rivalry with Paris, and then you had the rise of Berlin and Nazi Germany, followed by WW2, which sadly led to the bombing of many European cities including London.

On top of this, London was outward looking in terms of Empire and was the mother city of Empire spanning over one quarter of the world, so global affairs were always important, as was global trade.

Today London and Paris are a mere 2 hours from each other via the Eurostar trains, and in such circumstances it's far more difficult to live in your own universe geographically or even politically, than it is in NYC and indeed many other parts of the US.

I can see why it would be far easier to become insular t living in a vast city, in a vast country, with your only near neighbours in the US North East being Canada, and the cities that are close to NYC being American cities, whilst at the same time being immersed in both New York culture and US culture, both of which can be over powering in the first place.
I can’t speak with any nuance to the situation in Europe, but I do still feel that NYC and much of the megalopolis is on a different page from much of the US. Even folks talking about “coastal elitism” don’t really get that the coasts also don’t really have a fundamentally similar lifestyle or vibe. From morning news broadcasts out of NYC to halfhearted attempts by NYC-based NPR journalists to see what’s outside of the city, I don’t think a lot of NYers even really understand how separate it feels from the rest of the nation.

At least in Europe, many of the cities of at least marginal size share some commonalities in terms of daily life: tight old streets conducive to walking, local shops, transit, etc, so that for instance a movie set in one city doesn’t feel entirely divorced from your life 500 miles away, whereas daily life in NYC only marginally has two domestic peers in Chicago and SF.
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Old 07-30-2021, 01:31 AM
Status: "“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Great Britain
27,187 posts, read 13,477,157 times
Reputation: 19518
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcp123 View Post
I can’t speak with any nuance to the situation in Europe, but I do still feel that NYC and much of the megalopolis is on a different page from much of the US. Even folks talking about “coastal elitism” don’t really get that the coasts also don’t really have a fundamentally similar lifestyle or vibe. From morning news broadcasts out of NYC to halfhearted attempts by NYC-based NPR journalists to see what’s outside of the city, I don’t think a lot of NYers even really understand how separate it feels from the rest of the nation.

At least in Europe, many of the cities of at least marginal size share some commonalities in terms of daily life: tight old streets conducive to walking, local shops, transit, etc, so that for instance a movie set in one city doesn’t feel entirely divorced from your life 500 miles away, whereas daily life in NYC only marginally has two domestic peers in Chicago and SF.
Another thing that separates NYC, and makes it more insular and in it's own universe is sport, as the main sports are domestic, as are the rivalries.

However go to say London, and you can have international football at Wembley such as the recent Euros finals or numerous England games.

You also have regular international Rugby at Twickenham including the six nations, European Rugby Champions Cup (Heineken Cup) and regular games against the likes of Australia, New Zealand or Rugby World Cup/ etc

Similarly at Lords and the Oval, England often play cricket against Australia New Zealand, West Indies,South Africa, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka or Cricket World Cup. etc.

Whilst you also have club matches in European leagues in terms of football (soccer), the main ones being the European Champions Cup and UEFA Cup.

This is a bit different to the New York Yankees v the New York Mets or even the Boston Red Sox or the US World Series.
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