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Well, I'd hardly compare the hundred or so Pilgrims who willingly came to America, to the hundreds of thousands of convicts brought to Australia against their will!
I'm pretty sure most Aussies who have an Irish ancestor who fought for independence from the British, and was exiled to Australia for their efforts, would be extremely proud of them They'd be similarly proud of any poor rural ancestor exiled for stealing food to feed their starving family, and who survived in the pretty harsh environment of NSW.
Aussies don't whitewash the first fleet and the convict era at all. Some examples: Australia day marks the arrival of the first fleet, and the remains of the jail at Port Arthur are some of the most visited tourist attractions in Australia.
As for the Pilgrims, why did they see the need to flee from England?
But Robert Hughes did have a book to sell.."the Fatal Shore" I think it was titled.
Well, I'd hardly compare the hundred or so Pilgrims who willingly came to America, to the hundreds of thousands of convicts brought to Australia against their will! And I'm sorry Aussies are unhappy with "foreigners" for simply pointing out the historical facts, instead of "enabling" their well-documented 'De Nile' and general ambivalence re: their own history.
But OK, so we disagree, although in fairness I'm citing more than simply my "opinion" here ("furiner" or no). And BTW, I hope you're not suggesting that only 'Aussies' are "entitled" to voice their opinions about the conditions in 'Oz' ('cuz heaven knows, they sure have their opinions about the U.S.)!
You give a couple of paragraphs of standard primary school history that every Australian is taught, and say we are in total denial it ever happend?
What is dramatically over played is the general line "Most/All Australians are descended from convicts" which is simply not true.
Well, I'd hardly compare the hundred or so Pilgrims who willingly came to America, to the hundreds of thousands of convicts brought to Australia against their will! And I'm sorry Aussies are unhappy with "foreigners" for simply pointing out the historical facts, instead of "enabling" their well-documented 'De Nile' and general ambivalence re: their own history.
There were 165,000 convicts brought to Australia over 80 years. For a comparison there were 370,000 immigrants in 1852 alone. The labour in those early days was convict labour, but the ruling of Australia was not done by convicts at all. In fact some were still in ball and chain.
You give a couple of paragraphs of standard primary school history that every Australian is taught, and say we are in total denial it ever happend?
What is dramatically over played is the general line "Most/All Australians are descended from convicts" which is simply not true.
It's estimated something like less than 2% of Australians could ever trace back to convicts. So when we constantly hear insults about convicts and crap like - well what do you expect from a nation of convicts - etc it's not that we have no sense of humour, it's that the person saying it is clearly ignorant.
There were 806 convict ships totalling less than 200,000 convicts by the time they stopped coming and Australia had over 1 million people. We had 300,000 aboriginals prior to 1788 aswell.
Yeah I'd say what your country did is not really relevant. One can, as a human being, say what is right or wrong, but also, one can say things out of ignorance. I think Mac15 and P London have said some rather ignorant things about America and Australia.
I haven't said anything ignorant about the USA actually, Australia yes I'd admit it but not the USA. Sorry but Australia gives of a vibe of being a sexist and racist society. Of course I've never been to Australia but I can only listen to your claims which are more valid than mine.
I haven't said anything ignorant about the USA actually, Australia yes I'd admit it but not the USA. Sorry but Australia gives of a vibe of being a sexist and racist society. Of course I've never been to Australia but I can only listen to your claims which are more valid than mine.
Well you did that I would consider as such, but no big deal, don't want to bring up any of that...
Well yes, everyones experience is different. I think to say there's 'no racism' in Australia is of course inaccurate. If you're non-white like myself you're more likely to at least experience some form of racism. BUT, on the whole, I wouldn't characterise Australia as a racist country or most Australians as racist. 99% of the time I don't have any problem at all. I would say in general it's not too unlike the UK, but probably less PC. But yes, racism does happen, how common it is depends on a lot of things (who you ask, hang with, where, the circumstances) but it's something you probably will not encounter in everyday life here. Of course there are some who are just unlucky.
It's estimated something like less than 2% of Australians could ever trace back to convicts. So when we constantly hear insults about convicts and crap like - well what do you expect from a nation of convicts - etc it's not that we have no sense of humour, it's that the person saying it is clearly ignorant.
There were 806 convict ships totalling less than 200,000 convicts by the time they stopped coming and Australia had over 1 million people. We had 300,000 aboriginals prior to 1788 aswell.
All the east coast states had stopped transportation prior to 1850, it was only WA (which took the smallest number of convicts overall) that continued transporting during the Golds Rushes and into the 1860's. Australia's non indigenous population actually doubled in 1852 from immigration alone
I don't think that's fair. Considering nobody alive now had anything to do with what happened back then, and considering what happens now is none of our business, I think we're very capable of passing judgement. Remember, it is our 'systematic destruction' of indigenous contries all over the world that is probably responsible for your presence on this forum. If you're appalled by this, I suggest giving back all of the land to the Aborigines immediately.
The other problem is the majority of Australians were not alive, or were living in another country when all of this happened as well.
I am myself are able pass judgement of course, and as an Australian who holds a British Passport and has lived in the UK for several years I would say that the British are no where near as racially tolerant or left leaning as they make them selves out to be. Certainly no large or noticeable difference exists between the two countries.
I will agree British Colonialism is possibly the main cause of wealth and prosperity in places like Australia and Canada. However both counties now have to deal with the negative aspects of it as well.
Last edited by danielsa1775; 01-29-2014 at 06:14 AM..
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They'd be similarly proud of any poor rural ancestor exiled for stealing food to feed their starving family, and who survived in the pretty harsh environment of NSW.
Remember, it is our 'systematic destruction' of indigenous contries all over the world that is probably responsible for your presence on this forum. If you're appalled by this, I suggest giving back all of the land to the Aborigines immediately. 
