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Old 02-01-2014, 08:40 PM
 
Location: East coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Federal law vs State law. States had the option of allowing the drinking age to be 18 but the federal government wouldn't give money for highways or other funding if they did. Since it's not in the constitution, a state, if it chose could lower it's drinking age but would then be cut off from some funding. Since the federal government can't legally "make" a state follow a certain law, this is how they get compliance.
Still, that still leaves the question open of what were the social attitudes that influenced government thinking that specifically drinking should only be legal at 21, when there are so many other things you can legally do as an 18-year old adult.
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:30 PM
 
Location: WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
It still seems like it differs from the UK and the other English-descended colonial societies like Canada (though it was culturally different too from having French Catholic settlers), Australia, and New Zealand.

In particular, I was thinking of the case where attitudes about alcohol differed. Why is the legal drinking age so much higher (21) than in the other countries. Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears there was more support for Prohibition, and seems to be more teetotalers among Americans than those other nations. Also, things like attitudes about sex seem more strict among Americans.

But perhaps, as people mentioned here, the Puritans really didn't have much influence compared to the Scots-Irish and later Evangelical movements.
Alcohol prohibition occurred in Canada as well, mandated at the federal and provincial levels. I don't know how popular support for prohibition amongst the Canadian public compared to that of the American public, but it was nonetheless a legal reality there for almost the exact same time-period as here.

And while currently the drinking age in other Anglosphere nations is lower than what has been established throughout the U.S., debate over drinking age increases aren't at all unheard of in the countries you use as contrasts. Support for drinking laws similar to those in the U.S. exists elsewhere in the Anglo world, but public support for such measures is varied.

Moving on, I'm interested to know exactly how attitudes toward sex (and sexual behavior in particular) differ between the U.S. and other Anglo countries, in your estimation or even based on empirical data. You may find, in contradiction of the "more strict" attitude toward sex you perceive Americans to have, that their behavior doesn't at all suggest a "strict" or conservative view of sex whatsoever, at least compared to their Anglo counterparts.

I'll lastly note that such contradictions between attitude and behavior don't make Americans puritanical, but it may, I suppose, indict them as dishonest about, and unaccepting of, their sexual reality (this would be a hang-up in itself).
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:50 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
45,983 posts, read 53,485,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montguy View Post
Alcohol prohibition occurred in Canada as well, mandated at the federal and provincial levels. I don't know how popular support for prohibition amongst the Canadian public compared to that of the American public, but it was nonetheless a legal reality there for almost the exact same time-period as here.
here's a map of the congressional vote for Prohibition:

Xenocrypt's Site.: Mapping Historical Votes: Prohibition Passes The House.

besides an urban vs rural split, it also maps an immigrant vs native split, and likely Protestant vs Catholic America. Prohibition had much less support among "white ethnic" Americans, and many viewed as an attack on their culture.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix
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I think that one of the biggest differences that's held over is our legacy of punitive rather than reformative justice. This puritanical protestant movement had an obsession with punishing what they viewed as wicked, and look at how our justice system is now... find a kid with a nugget of weed on him, throw him in prison for three months to sit in an overcrowded cell and do nothing but watch fights and get f'ed with all day, then put him back out on the street with a drug conviction that bars him from ever getting a normal, respectable job to "teach him a lesson," rather than actually teaching him anything.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:45 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
Still, that still leaves the question open of what were the social attitudes that influenced government thinking that specifically drinking should only be legal at 21, when there are so many other things you can legally do as an 18-year old adult.
I see your point. However the fact that many states had and today would likely lower their drinking ages, I don't think reflects so much on the country's past as it does on it's present. The more laws we have, the more "crime" there will be and the more involved law enforcement and the federal government can be. Many government agencies make a killing off of busting under aged drinking and especially legal fees and fines paid by adults and businesses who supply alcohol to under age drinkers.
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:47 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I think that one of the biggest differences that's held over is our legacy of punitive rather than reformative justice. This puritanical protestant movement had an obsession with punishing what they viewed as wicked, and look at how our justice system is now... find a kid with a nugget of weed on him, throw him in prison for three months to sit in an overcrowded cell and do nothing but watch fights and get f'ed with all day, then put him back out on the street with a drug conviction that bars him from ever getting a normal, respectable job to "teach him a lesson," rather than actually teaching him anything.
^^^This right here!!!
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:49 PM
 
Location: The Downunderverse
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I think the puritan history explains a lot about modern day America, just like our convict history explains a lot about modern day Australia, when the pilgrims first landed in America they held a prayer and when the first fleet of convicts landed in Australia they literally had an orgy lol.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:30 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,210 posts, read 107,904,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process;33285320[B
]Examples include more strict attitudes on drinking (the US had Prohibition). [/b]Also, on the issue of censorship on TV, people have noted Americans worry more about censoring nudity and content that is sexual or sexually provocative and less on censoring violence, while I hear for European countries it is the opposite. They seem to have less hang-ups about sex compared to violence shown or broadcast. Additionally, Americans seem to work longer hours than some of the other western nations, related possibly to the Protestant work ethic?

Are these legacies of that? Or do you think it is something else entirely?
Prohibition was passed as a result of the women's Temperance movement, which was a reaction to the violence women suffered in the home as a result of alcoholism. Add to that no option for women to initiate divorce, and you have a huge and very serious problem. It had nothing to do with Puritanism. Just fyi. A little historical background helps to understand some of the odd phenomena in the US.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Prohibition was passed as a result of the women's Temperance movement, which was a reaction to the violence women suffered in the home as a result of alcoholism. Add to that no option for women to initiate divorce, and you have a huge and very serious problem. It had nothing to do with Puritanism. Just fyi. A little historical background helps to understand some of the odd phenomena in the US.
This is true. Hearing about this made me more sympathetic/understand of Prohibition, although of course it didn't really work out as planned...
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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I don't think attitudes towards sex are much stricter in the US than any Anglo country. If you take actual behaviour as a measure of how serious you take your religion, the US seems little different to the UK, continental Europe, Australia, Canada.etc. The prevalence of virgins at marriage is very low (despite so many professing to be evangelical Christians. even if pre-marital sex is not expressly forbidden in the Bible much mainline and conservative churches discourage it and consider it a sin), the US is still the pornography capital of the world, exports music videos and music and films and TV that glorify hedonism...of course this doesn't represent all of America, there are still large parts of the Bible Belt and elsewhere that have attitudes not too far removed from the Middle East, but overall America seems liberal in this regard.
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