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Old 11-07-2014, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,227,721 times
Reputation: 8975

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtyjerz View Post
Come on. WHo does that? Your whole rant is based on a ridiculous straw man.
Don't bother dirtyjerz, he's a boob.

 
Old 11-07-2014, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,227,721 times
Reputation: 8975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro4 View Post
Joshua,

I am not criticizing American patriotism - I'm criticizing ignorance, something that you are evidently in no short supply of. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with having national pride, but we are taught from an early age that we live in the greatest country in the world so the patriotism is not in the least bit surprising. However, whenever we cross the water and come out with things like "I'm from America, the greatest country in the world" it is not only untrue in the eyes of others, but insulting to whoever's country we've stepped foot in. I've seen this happen on several occasions and it really grinds my gears.





If you believe America is the greatest, that's fine, but the quality of life in other nations is a recent phenomenon? Come on, what do you think the Renaissance was all about? And Europe's stretch of peace? I suppose we can just write off Kosovo, Bosnia, the Basque Conflict, the IRA's border campaign, two Chechen wars, and of course Crimea among many others, can we? Don't be delusional. There is always conflict everywhere in the world. I studied history at St. Andrews University in Scotland, thank you for asking, and I concluded that our version of history is very America-centric. I learned a lot more about world history abroad. I guess another benefit of being insulated is that you won't often hear about the other conflicts that happen around the world hey. Wise up.



So from "the majority of us..." you took that to read as "all my family and friends". Surely even someone as simple-minded as you can see that made you look like a fool.

You think that rant was to gain respect? It was born out of frustration. Frustration of years of seeing people from my country acting like you do. Don't you see that it's the crap that you come out with that people hate? It's exactly the kind of thing I was referring to in my original post.





You'll do well to listen to these people as they are clearly far more intelligent. Now, I'll apologise to anybody I might have offended with my rant, but I don't get riled up because I'm unpatriotic, I get riled up because I actually give a damn about how we are perceived as a nation. Unfortunately Joshua, there are too many people like yourself that seem intent on painting a portrait of stupidity and THAT is why I blow up.
The reason you blow up is because you are clearly unstable.

Last edited by Mr. Joshua; 11-07-2014 at 11:24 PM..
 
Old 11-07-2014, 11:35 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,580 posts, read 27,296,762 times
Reputation: 9032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
In this world, power earns respect.
That's not respect.
 
Old 11-07-2014, 11:39 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,580 posts, read 27,296,762 times
Reputation: 9032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro4 View Post
Joshua,

I am not criticizing American patriotism - I'm criticizing ignorance, something that you are evidently in no short supply of. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with having national pride, but we are taught from an early age that we live in the greatest country in the world so the patriotism is not in the least bit surprising. However, whenever we cross the water and come out with things like "I'm from America, the greatest country in the world" it is not only untrue in the eyes of others, but insulting to whoever's country we've stepped foot in. I've seen this happen on several occasions and it really grinds my gears.





If you believe America is the greatest, that's fine, but the quality of life in other nations is a recent phenomenon? Come on, what do you think the Renaissance was all about? And Europe's stretch of peace? I suppose we can just write off Kosovo, Bosnia, the Basque Conflict, the IRA's border campaign, two Chechen wars, and of course Crimea among many others, can we? Don't be delusional. There is always conflict everywhere in the world. I studied history at St. Andrews University in Scotland, thank you for asking, and I concluded that our version of history is very America-centric. I learned a lot more about world history abroad. I guess another benefit of being insulated is that you won't often hear about the other conflicts that happen around the world hey. Wise up.



So from "the majority of us..." you took that to read as "all my family and friends". Surely even someone as simple-minded as you can see that made you look like a fool.

You think that rant was to gain respect? It was born out of frustration. Frustration of years of seeing people from my country acting like you do. Don't you see that it's the crap that you come out with that people hate? It's exactly the kind of thing I was referring to in my original post.





You'll do well to listen to these people as they are clearly far more intelligent. Now, I'll apologise to anybody I might have offended with my rant, but I don't get riled up because I'm unpatriotic, I get riled up because I actually give a damn about how we are perceived as a nation. Unfortunately Joshua, there are too many people like yourself that seem intent on painting a portrait of stupidity and THAT is why I blow up.
While I can't rep you again, I'd say, another great post
 
Old 11-08-2014, 12:25 AM
 
6,851 posts, read 10,908,717 times
Reputation: 8405
Why shouldn't they?

America blows.
 
Old 11-08-2014, 02:28 AM
 
2,331 posts, read 2,907,343 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camaro4 View Post
Joshua,

I am not criticizing American patriotism - I'm criticizing ignorance, something that you are evidently in no short supply of. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with having national pride, but we are taught from an early age that we live in the greatest country in the world so the patriotism is not in the least bit surprising. However, whenever we cross the water and come out with things like "I'm from America, the greatest country in the world" it is not only untrue in the eyes of others, but insulting to whoever's country we've stepped foot in. I've seen this happen on several occasions and it really grinds my gears.
Very much true, couldn't have said it better myself. The sad thing is, despite doing worst in just about everything like poverty levels, crime rates, health-care, education, infrastructure, engineering, housing quality, cell phone reception, broad band speeds, employee rights, or dental care, Americans still believe their country is 'the best'. The only explanation for this is complete and total ignorance.

Last edited by drro; 11-08-2014 at 02:40 AM..
 
Old 11-08-2014, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,227,721 times
Reputation: 8975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
While I can't rep you again, I'd say, another great post
Really? So you believe that we are taught at a young age that we are number 1? And further, that we go to Europe and declare: I'm from America and we're number 1!

The answer is those questions is no. Yet you can't rep this guy enough for his profoundly ridiculous and unhinged rant (his word).

And clearly you agree that the majority of us Americans is ignorant and arrogant? A little newsflash for you, only an ignorant and arrogant person would make that declaration.
 
Old 11-08-2014, 07:48 AM
 
4 posts, read 3,593 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
Really? So you believe that we are taught at a young age that we are number 1? And further, that we go to Europe and declare: I'm from America and we're number 1!

The answer is those questions is no. Yet you can't rep this guy enough for his profoundly ridiculous and unhinged rant (his word).

And clearly you agree that the majority of us Americans is ignorant and arrogant? A little newsflash for you, only an ignorant and arrogant person would make that declaration.
You've obviously not seen this kind of behaviour whilst abroad, which is quite astonishing and if I'm honest, a little relieving. My rant was not based on this though. My rant was based on the general ignorance of many people in our country, that was just one example of it based on the experiences I've had - and I'm clearly not the only one who has witnessed this behaviour if people are on board with what I'm saying.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad (and little envious) that you've not had to witness this situation, but I have on more occasions than I would have liked, and that's probably why we have different views.

We really ARE taught that we're the greatest from a young age. It's drilled into us. How often did you hear the phrase "greatest country in the world" growing up? I heard it in every class and I still hear it all the time. If we're supposed to believe it's the greatest, then we should be taught WHY it's (apparently) the greatest, not THAT it's the greatest because that just perpetuates the ignorance that (I believe) puts our nation in a bad light.

The difference between America and a lot of other countries (or at least the ones I've visited) is that everyone seems so much more grounded. My friends abroad know their country's strengths and achievements, but they can also freely admit their faults. We don't seem to do that so much here. It's almost like we live in a bubble where this land is the greener grass just because somebody said so. We could make America the greatest country in the world, but we're not going to get there by simply believing it already is with no evidence to support the claim.

Finally, I apologize for my outbursts toward you and Jerz. I got personal and that is not usually how I conduct myself. It came in the heat of the moment and I am sorry for saying some of the things that I said. I know we don't agree on a lot of things, but I truly just want more for America. I want it to be part of the world, not apart from it.

P.S. Thank you Gentoo, Mahrie, drro, Greysholic and pBobcat for backing up points that I've been struggling to get across.

Last edited by Camaro4; 11-08-2014 at 08:26 AM.. Reason: Grammar
 
Old 11-08-2014, 09:29 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,580 posts, read 27,296,762 times
Reputation: 9032
Quote:
Really? So you believe that we are taught at a young age that we are number 1? And further, that we go to Europe and declare: I'm from America and we're number 1!
I believe the first part, don't know anything about the second.
Quote:
The answer is those questions is no. Yet you can't rep this guy enough for his profoundly ridiculous and unhinged rant (his word).

And clearly you agree that the majority of us Americans is ignorant and arrogant? A little newsflash for you, only an ignorant and arrogant person would make that declaration.
You can't respond to the subject matter of a post so you attack the person for simply not sharing your beliefs. Every single thing in your responses has been going after the person for having their own opinion rather than disputing the opinion itself. Now let me ask you, how does this prove whatever point you're trying to make?
 
Old 11-08-2014, 09:34 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,580 posts, read 27,296,762 times
Reputation: 9032
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro View Post
Very much true, couldn't have said it better myself. The sad thing is, despite doing worst in just about everything like poverty levels, crime rates, health-care, education, infrastructure, engineering, housing quality, cell phone reception, broad band speeds, employee rights, or dental care, Americans still believe their country is 'the best'. The only explanation for this is complete and total ignorance.
I'm not so sure if it's willful ignorance or more simply cluelessness. Now, if people have access to the information and still dismiss it, then maybe it is ignorance.

Now, that is how one disagrees with an opinion without making it personal.
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