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View Poll Results: Which does Toronto resemble most?
London 1 1.22%
Queens, NY 12 14.63%
Philadelphia 5 6.10%
Buffalo 4 4.88%
Chicago 55 67.07%
Los Angeles 1 1.22%
San Francisco 4 4.88%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 12-21-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,709,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post

We can also do some nice qualitative arguments for the MSP to Toronto argument. These are two nice areas that had great growth spurts since the mid 20th century and with the areas being fairly shiny, clean and new and with far less decrepit parts from being a massive hulk of a city/metro from an earlier period. A huge majority of the diversity of the two areas has come from very recent migration. Politically, Minnesota and MSP seem far closer to Toronto and Ontario than Chicago and Illinois are.
This is actually the most interesting thing you've mentioned thus far -especially red.. Curious what you thoughts are on the last sentence.. How is this so?
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,709,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, so ignore that kind of stupidity. It doesn't really make for very nuanced arguments.
Ok fine - you win so answer my question about MSP and Toronto politically vs Chicago please
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:38 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Western Massachusetts
46,011 posts, read 53,149,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Well, I just gave you the numbers of Chicago and I took the numbers for GTA from that wikipedia source. I found those numbers comparable and they seemed to point to Chicago encompassing significantly more people in the same area.
Unless your area is so large that includes rural areas outside of Toronto, there's no way that Chicago has significantly more people in the same area. Toronto city proper is very slightly less dense than Chicago, but Toronto suburbs are denser than Chicago. There's no point in using CSA numbers for density numbers, they follow county lines adding in rural area.

Toronto urban area: 5,132,794 people in 1,751 square kilometers
Chicago urban area: 8,608,208 people in 6,327 square kilometers
Minneapolis urban area: 2,650,890 people in 2,647 square kilometers

http://www.city-data.com/forum/urban...l#post26233867

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-re...9&SR=1&S=3&O=D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_urban_areas

In the inner parts, Chicago and Toronto have about the same number of people living in census tracts above 20,000 per square mile (or 30,000 per square mile). About 1 million (Chicago a bit higher at 1.1 million) living in 20,000 per square mile and about 400,000 in tracts 30,000 square mile or more. Minneapolis has some few tracts above 20,000 per square mile I could count them off a map: about 10,800 people live in census tracts that dense or denser. I'd give an edge to Toronto but Minneapolis isn't similar at all. I guess they're all more similar to each to other than Hong Kong but Hong Kong is a very, very different city.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,709,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steeps View Post
Who says ANY North American city will become as big as NYC? It is the Worlds city with London... But a attitude of Chicago winning with even Queens NYC as a choice in the list...... and a slight not Just the attitude of Chicago winning the likeness poll. But to Toronto citizens to DARE see Chicago with esteem ?
Chicago is a great city that need not make apologies... There are many aspects of it i'd love in Toronto and honestly NYC is largely untouchable.... I see all these vs forums between U.S cities and NYC and I just go - why lol... There is a magic about it that no Canadian or American city can touch.. A city like Toronto or Chicago could only create its own magic over time.. T.O's been on the move - we'll see where we get, you've had a head start but we're running faster and faster..
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,709,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Unless your area is so large that includes rural areas outside of Toronto, there's no way that Chicago has significantly more people in the same area. Toronto city proper is very slightly less dense than Chicago, but Toronto suburbs are denser than Chicago. There's no point in using CSA numbers for density numbers, they follow county lines adding in rural area.

Toronto urban area: 5,132,794 people in 1,751 square kilometers
Chicago urban area: 8,608,208 people in 6,327 square kilometers
Minneapolis urban area: 2,650,890 people in 2,647 square kilometers

http://www.city-data.com/forum/urban...l#post26233867

Population and dwelling counts, for population centres, 2011 and 2006 censuses

List of United States urban areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the inner parts, Chicago and Toronto have about the same number of people living in census tracts above 20,000 per square mile (or 30,000 per square mile). About 1 million (Chicago a bit higher at 1.1 million) living in 20,000 per square mile and about 400,000 in tracts 30,000 square mile or more. Minneapolis has some few tracts above 20,000 per square mile I could count them off a map: about 10,800 people live in census tracts that dense or denser. I'd give an edge to Toronto but Minneapolis isn't similar at all. I guess they're all more similar to each to other than Hong Kong but Hong Kong is a very, very different city.
Wow - Toronto's urban area density is really impressive - particularly over 50000 ppsm - second only to NYC in the U.S/Can. More so than I thought and this just coincides with what I've been stating... NYC is no surprise but just mind boggling and totally untouchable.. I don't think there is anything outside of the Chicago city proper that comes close to say Mississauga or Brampton as two big examples in terms of population/density..

Last edited by fusion2; 12-22-2014 at 12:13 AM..
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:58 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,894 posts, read 38,801,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Unless your area is so large that includes rural areas outside of Toronto, there's no way that Chicago has significantly more people in the same area. Toronto city proper is very slightly less dense than Chicago, but Toronto suburbs are denser than Chicago. There's no point in using CSA numbers for density numbers, they follow county lines adding in rural area.

Toronto urban area: 5,132,794 people in 1,751 square kilometers
Chicago urban area: 8,608,208 people in 6,327 square kilometers
Minneapolis urban area: 2,650,890 people in 2,647 square kilometers

http://www.city-data.com/forum/urban...l#post26233867

Population and dwelling counts, for population centres, 2011 and 2006 censuses

List of United States urban areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the inner parts, Chicago and Toronto have about the same number of people living in census tracts above 20,000 per square mile (or 30,000 per square mile). About 1 million (Chicago a bit higher at 1.1 million) living in 20,000 per square mile and about 400,000 in tracts 30,000 square mile or more. Minneapolis has some few tracts above 20,000 per square mile I could count them off a map: about 10,800 people live in census tracts that dense or denser. I'd give an edge to Toronto but Minneapolis isn't similar at all. I guess they're all more similar to each to other than Hong Kong but Hong Kong is a very, very different city.
That's a surprise. How are the two respective urban areas calculated?
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:11 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
46,011 posts, read 53,149,397 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
That's a surprise. How are the two respective urban areas calculated?
About the same. Contiguous 400 per square kilometer tracts for Canada; 1000 per square mile tracts for US urban area. Toronto suburbs have small lots (average smaller than California suburbs), lots of high rises and little "leapfrog" development, so this shouldn't be a surprise.


From urban areas to population centres

https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafaq.html
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:14 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
46,011 posts, read 53,149,397 times
Reputation: 15174
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
Wow - Toronto's urban area density is really impressive - particularly over 50000 ppsm - second only to NYC in the U.S/Can. More so than I thought and this just coincides with what I've been stating... NYC is no surprise but just mind boggling and totally untouchable..
The high above 50,000 ppsm numbers must from high rise infill. Some of these residential, I assume.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/No...330d877abf7e3d
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:20 AM
 
Location: Toronto
15,109 posts, read 15,709,886 times
Reputation: 5191
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The high above 50,000 ppsm numbers must from high rise infill. Some of these residential, I assume.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/No...330d877abf7e3d
Ah yes - North York City Centre - mostly residential but quite a few commercial buildings as well.. In your link I could see Nesltle Canada HQ - P&G is there as well... Currently under construction in that very area is the tallest building outside Toronto's DT core called the Hallmark Centre condo's

the plus 50000 ppsm is most certainly supported by that.. St Jamestown is of note.. which is the most dense highrise cluster in Canada

St. James Town - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The GTA itself is home to over 3000 Highrise buildings so there's your high density clusters!

Last edited by fusion2; 12-22-2014 at 12:31 AM..
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Old 12-22-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
2,535 posts, read 3,254,658 times
Reputation: 1483
Every nation has its main premier city. For the US it's NYC and Canada, Toronto has taken it. Surely getting most of the development and wealth. Chicago always had to play second fiddle to NYC.... even third to LA? But just as Toronto has come of age for Canada now. Chicago is for the US.
Trying to take its rightful place, always having to deal with the negative stereotypes from the Capone mafia era, 68 riot to crime gang stigma today. But it has been blossoming despite it all..
Still....Chicago was and is lucky to still have land around its downtown to develop even from scratch. Manhattan does not... Parts of Chicago's downtown are virtually all new... being developed in the last 30 years.
I give picture examples
1970 ⤵ ................Today .. ......large available space south of downtown both sides of Chicago River. Including air rights over railroad beds Chicago used well.
Attached Thumbnails
Which city is Toronto most similar to?-s-curve-approx1970.jpg   Which city is Toronto most similar to?-chicago-condo-apts..jpg   Which city is Toronto most similar to?-chicago-commercial-flight.jpg   Which city is Toronto most similar to?-over-chicago-south-downtown.jpg  
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