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Old 11-18-2014, 07:42 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
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I know it's been asked but it hasn't yet been answered; why would the AMERICAN dream exist elsewhere in the world?
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:42 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,298 posts, read 4,395,258 times
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The "American Dream" is dead and has been so for a while. Corporate fat cats are half to blame. The other half is the American people themselves for squandering our liberties for a false sense of security.

Last edited by Bulldawg82; 11-18-2014 at 09:00 AM..
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,226,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHardToHideIt View Post
Largely because of how the U.S. promotes itself, is the reason some people think they want to move here. The U.S. is good for one thing and that is making money, other than that it completely blows.



Look under statistics. Emigration from the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have a look at this as well
America? - YouTube
So you are going by a Wikipedia page that doesn't remotely back up your supposition and a TV show.

In other words, you got nuthin'!
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,226,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
American dream? that doesn't exist to anyone but to Americans.... never heard of any other person outside the US talking about the American dream

folks..... just because it occurs in the US it doesnt mean it occurs elsewhere on the world too!
I live in Boston, I know of a large group of Russians and Uzbeks (one is my barber). They think that we are unconscionable idiots because we don't know how unbelievably lucky we are to live here.

There is one thing that, as an American, I will never do and that is to ask another American whether they believe the "American Dream" exists. Half of them are too effing stupid or brainwashed by the Left to give an intelligent answer.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,460 posts, read 11,226,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Many, having gone through America's 2nd Great Depression, have altered their American Dream that has become unrecognizable from the earlier version.

"Please God! I know I stupidly got me a 4-year-degree, and I'm up to my ears in student debt, but why can't I now get a dream job at McDonald's?
Let me guess: Bachelor of Arts in Fart History?
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:29 AM
 
35 posts, read 33,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Why is this dream only relegated to America? I'm sure working hard and becoming successful is a potential that can be had in most countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlcockatoo View Post
Anyway, the 'American dream' is such a dumb concept. It's nothing more than an escapist propaganda term for Americans to play up their own country as better than it really is. And I'm not even saying that America is worse. I'm just saying that 'the American dream' is just part of all that American exceptionalism bs, and I'm not about to support that either. It's also a genius propaganda term because you can't disprove it because people all have different definitions for it and will conveniently exclude all the negative aspects of American life when using it. It just means whatever people want it to mean and is an easy way to use logical fallacies to prove America is #1, which is such a stupid concept (as is the concept of any country being '#1'. Everything is so much more complex than that).

It's actually really insulting too because it takes international concepts and assumes they are uniquely American. It is also often used to describe a stereotypical vision of America only idealised by one segment of the American population. A lot of people use it just enforce suburban control over everyone via it's image being forced through the media. So yeah, the American dream doesn't really exist outside of people's heads.
You guys aren't reading me correctly. I am a member of the segment referred to in the bold sentence above, disillusioned by the contrast between reality, and what I was taught to expect from it.

I'm not implying at all that the American dream is uniquely American, just the opposite. I'm implying that the American dream is dead here in America, and asking where in the world it's still alive.

I'm just using the phrase "American dream," to express the concept for lack of a better term. I'm basically asking if there's a new "America," to immigrate to for the same reasons past generations are purported to have immigrated here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlcockatoo View Post
Sweden has a much more lenient immigration system and a higher proportion of foreign-born citizens. They tend to live in better conditions as well.
This is kind of what I posted to learn about. I figure Nordic countries to be off limits to me due to only having a H.S. diploma, but I'll dig a little deeper into Sweden thanks to your suggestion.

Quote:
European dream: buy a vintage car, drive around the countryside on a sunny summer day, then have a picnic with some nice traditional food products and some nice quality wine, then go to a cute cottage filled with character, enjoy with your family friends
This actually sounds pretty close to perfection. How attainable is this dream in Europe?

Quote:
They think that we are unconscionable idiots because we don't know how unbelievably lucky we are to live here.

There is one thing that, as an American, I will never do and that is to ask another American whether they believe the "American Dream" exists. Half of them are too effing stupid or brainwashed by the Left to give an intelligent answer.
That's fair. That's why I felt compelled to post in a worldwide forum. As far as not knowing how unbelievably lucky I am to live here, that's probably correct too, I probably take what I do have for granted. But it's probably not as much as foreigners might assume based on my location. There actually are broke Americans...

Also, I dislike justifying our poor leadership by comparing the country to places that have it far worse, it's like comparing apples to oranges. With our size, history, and abundance of resources, we could be (and were brought up expecting to be) doing much better.

Maybe I'm a bad person for not being just peachy with a higher standard of poverty than the rest of the world's poor have. I'm asking you guys to look past that admitted character flaw. For reasons beyond my understanding I can't just snap my fingers, change my attitude, and suddenly be satisfied; believe me, I would if I could-- I WANT to fit in around here.

People (here and on other forums) have thoroughly convinced me that I'm a piece of crap for being born here and wanting to move to another country to better myself. So I've accepted that, and am asking responders to this thread to please look past that, if they can.

I'm sorry I feel the way I do, I really am, but I'd be lieing if I said I could just change it I guess this thread is just continuing to look for that random gem of golden advice that will strike home and might help me, even though I know it's not that easy. Some glimmer of hope.

I'm basically brainstorming. My username accurately reflects my life right now.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:32 AM
 
35 posts, read 33,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
I know it's been asked but it hasn't yet been answered; why would the AMERICAN dream exist elsewhere in the world?
The American dream just means the ability to provide for yourself and raise a family in modest comfort and reasonable modernity without having to work 80 hours a week for it. It could potentially exist anywhere in the world.

Is it a bad name for this concept? Sure. Wanna think of a new name for it together?

How about "The Stereotypical Dream?"
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:36 AM
 
35 posts, read 33,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
The "American Dream" is dead and has been so for a while. Corporate fat cats are half to blame. The other half is the American people themselves for squandering our liberties for a false sense of security.
I completely agree, just didn't want to outright say it.

The question is how to react? Fight or flight.
Not enough other people feel cornered enough yet to trigger fight en masse, I suppose, so I'm defaulting to flight.

Just trying to figure out what the most ideal place to fly to is for me. I would be unbelievably disappointed in life if staying here is my best option. I refuse to accept that.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:16 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,317 posts, read 14,225,541 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
The "American Dream" is dead and has been so for a while. Corporate fat cats are half to blame. The other half is the American people themselves for squandering our liberties for a false sense of security.
While I think you exaggerate, I see your point: the scope for opportunity is certainly narrower than in, say, the 1950s-1990s period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua View Post
I live in Boston, I know of a large group of Russians and Uzbeks (one is my barber). They think that we are unconscionable idiots because we don't know how unbelievably lucky we are to live here.

There is one thing that, as an American, I will never do and that is to ask another American whether they believe the "American Dream" exists. Half of them are too effing stupid or brainwashed by the Left to give an intelligent answer.
Nevertheless, I have lived in about 1/4 of the world and, after around 25 years, I too conclude that the US is still the land of opportunity, at least relatively speaking.


Other than that, I would guess, just guessing now, Australia.

I recently read a very long article about Greeks escaping from their sad corrupt mess of a country and emigrating to Australia.

I know that young Italians escaping from that sad sclerotic morass of a country flee to the likes of Germany and the UK, maybe France, those looking for steady employment, and those, maybe not so young, with accumulated wealth and an entrepreneurial spirit, try the US. Maybe some have gone to Australia, but I do not have any anecdotes at hand.


US persons leaving the US to a large extent are working/middle class people in or nearing retirement seeking a place with a lower cost of living in a mild climate where they can live off their pensions (i.e. they cannot afford the more desirable areas of California, Arizona, Florida).


Quote:
Originally Posted by oneLostPuppy View Post
That's why I was wondering, is the American dream still alive anywhere in the world?

You guys know what I'm talking about.

I was raised to really believe in the American dream. That if I worked hard I should be able to make a respectable life for myself and raise a family. I bought into it.

Now I want to pursue it.

I realize America still has it better than a lot of places. That's not the question.

Or is it a case of "if you can't make it here you can't make it anywhere?"
If I were young today, I would do the same that others did 40 and even 80 years ago: save up $10,000-$20,000 (today's money), buy a delivery truck or van and start hauling stuff for businesses and people; e.g. last mile delivery services.

While you're doing that, memorize this equation: revenues - expenses = net income.

And learn Schedule C.

And if you have the strength, take some night classes, or online courses, on supply-chain management and read industry publications.

From small things momma, big things one day come.



Good Luck!

Last edited by bale002; 11-18-2014 at 11:31 AM..
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