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View Poll Results: Which city is more powerful?
New York City 136 60.44%
London 89 39.56%
Voters: 225. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-15-2014, 06:42 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,546 posts, read 3,277,620 times
Reputation: 1924

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
Cricket is No. 1 in India and Pakistan which is 1,210,193,422 people in India and 196,174,380 in Pakistan. A total of 1,406,367,802. Over 1.4 billion. The USA has a paltry 319,428,000 in comparison.
Ok but nobody in India and Pakistan cares about the county cricket games in London, while millions of people in Canada, Russia, Ukraine, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, etc follow the NHL (where most of their best players play). That's the difference if you lot really wanna talk about "world wide following".
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
2,737 posts, read 3,150,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
Ok but nobody in India and Pakistan cares about the county cricket games in London, while millions of people in Canada, Russia, Ukraine, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, etc follow the NHL (where most of their best players play). That's the difference if you lot really wanna talk about "world wide following".
There is so much International Cricket whether it be a Full Test Series, One Day Internationals (ODI's) or Twenty20 Cricket that there is a constant international fan base for the sport.

Whilst the Indian Premier League (IPL) Cricket is shown regularly on British Television courtesy of ITV4 and has many fans out there.

In terms of English Premiership Football it is the most watched league in the world and the most gambled upon. The whole world watches the Premiership.

Whilst in terms of Rugby there is a host of Internationals such as the Six Nations (Union), Autumn internationals (union), Rugby World Cups (Union and League), European Rugby Champions Cup (formerly the Heineken Cup) etc

In terms of the NFL, there is a very real prospect of London having it's own NFL Team based at Wembley in coming years.

Quote:

The sheer range of professional sport in London is staggering. Football, rugby union, rugby league, boxing, jump racing, flat racing, golf, tennis, athletics, cricket, snooker and darts.

Then there is greyhound racing, field hockey, ice hockey, basketball, baseball and softball, American football, speedway, cycling, rowing, swimming, table tennis and squash.

And it all takes place in some of the oldest and most atmospheric sporting theatres in the world - Wembley (welcome back - eventually), Twickenham, Wimbledon, Lord's, Epsom, Wentworth.

That's the top end. There are many - mostly in west London - who will tell you that nothing beats watching Queens Park Rangers under the floodlights at a packed Loftus Road There are others who prefer to stand trackside at Kempton or Sandown listening to the jockeys talking to each other as they guide big chasers over the fences.

Those of a gentler persuasion like nothing better than a pint or two while watching Middlesex play festival cricket at Southgate.

And there are more than a few arrows fans who swear that the Circus Tavern in Purfleet and Frimley Green's Lakeside Country club are the best places in the world for atmosphere and drama (especially after more than a pint or two)

Sure, they love their sport in New York, Sydney, Johannesburg, Beijing and Madrid; but they are all second division compared to London.

BBC - London - Sport - The Sports Capital Of The World
London was part of a Tour De France stage this year and now has the annual Prudential RideLondon-Surrey Classic cycle event as well as the new Olympic Velodrome.

There's even talk of Formula 1 Motor Racing taking place in London

New law could see Formula One Grand Prix in London - London - News - London Evening Standard

Hamilton: London GP would be insane | Planet F1 | Formula One News




Last edited by Bamford; 12-15-2014 at 07:53 AM..
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:09 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,546 posts, read 3,277,620 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamford View Post
There is so much International Cricket whether it be a Full Test Series, One Day Internationals (ODI's) or Twenty20 Cricket that there is a constant international fan base for the sport.

Whilst the Indian Premier League (IPL) Cricket is shown regularly on British Television courtesy of ITV4 and has many fans out there.

In terms of English Premiership Football it is the most watched league in the world and the most gambled upon. The whole world watches the Premiership.

Whilst in terms of Rugby there is a host of Internationals such as the Six Nations (Union), Autumn internationals (union), Rugby World Cups (Union and League), European Rugby Champions Cup (formerly the Heineken Cup) etc
The existence of international fan base for these sports is not in dispute -- but there is an international fan base for all these sports to various degrees. The discussion was specifically about the degree of global following for the sports leagues that are regularly competed in London and NY. And I was responding to the claim that all the leagues in London have world wide following while none of the leagues in NY do, which is total hogwash.

We can play this game all day and debate the merits of each sport (is it the the global following for the sport or the domestic league? is it by the number of countries or total population? what about attendance and global media coverage? etc etc). There is no way to win this argument. If you are arguing that London is a better sports city just because its leagues enjoy more world wide following, you are on shaky grounds -- first, because there is no objective empirical way to prove it and second, because it ignores a host of other relevant factors. I have already illustrated how that logic leads to absurd results. If "world wide following" or "number of eyeballs" is the sole metric, then it is probably Manchester or Barcelona that are the greatest sports cities in the world.

The only objective data we can actually use is the amount of top class sports taking place in each city. And by that measure I have argued that NYC is hard to beat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamford View Post

London was part of a Tour De France stage this year and now has the annual Prudential RideLondon-Surrey Classic cycle event as well as the new Olympic Velodrome.

There's even talk of Formula 1 Motor Racing taking place in London

New law could see Formula One Grand Prix in London - London - News - London Evening Standard

Hamilton: London GP would be insane | Planet F1 | Formula One News

Ok now you are expanding the argument to the full range of sports in each city. And while I am not dismissing London's pedigree (which is indeed impressive) neither should you dismiss NY. Besides its FIVE top professional leagues, there are regular top events in tennis, golf, horse racing, collegiate athletics etc etc. And while in London there is just "talk" of bringing Formula 1, in NY it is actually taking place in 2015.

Formula 1 New Jersey

Cheers
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:22 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,546 posts, read 3,277,620 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightower72 View Post
You've still not managed to grasp the idea that the rugby and cricket leagues played in London are international leagues from their foundation. Compare this to the NFL, which is a US based league desperately trying to market its popularity worldwide.

When others talk about global following, they are not talking about the popularity of a local or national league being projected to the rest of the world. That is simply naive and insular (not to mention wrong). They are talking about London's participation in trophy sports competitions that have been international since inception.

Sorry to break it to you, but everywhere I've travelled, even in far eastern countries where sports like baseball are popular, US leagues have fringe recognition at best. Bottom line is don't buy the marketing.



I have no idea where you have traveled, but if you don't know that basketball and the NBA are incredibly popular all over the world, including ESPECIALLY in most of Asia, then you should travel some more.

NBA Grows in China | Variety

"The hoops-crazed country is the NBA’s biggest overseas market. . . The NBA’s second Chinese New Year Celebration, which featured 23 live games televised and streamed to Chinese auds over eight days, reached 107 million fans on television and digital media last month, an increase of more than 11% compared to last year’s first-ever celebration.

Last year, the NBA’s Chinese website registered 3.3 billion page views; this year, that number rose by 34% to 4.5 billion page views, while during the 2012-13 regular season, total video streams for the NBA rose 169% over the 2011-12 season, from 1.2 billion to 3.2 billion."

Fringe recognition is an appropriate description for most of the rugby and cricket that takes place in the UK. Not for the NBA (or the NHL for that matter -- go to Canada or Russia, will you)

Michael Jordan and Lebron James are global icons on a level that's not even approached by most soccer stars (let alone cricket and rugby players that operate in relative global obscurity outside of a handful of countries), and NBA teams are like traveling circus shows when they go abroad.

Last edited by Fitzrovian; 12-15-2014 at 10:34 AM..
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:49 AM
 
514 posts, read 467,707 times
Reputation: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
[/i][/b]

I have no idea where you have traveled, but if you don't know that basketball and the NBA are incredibly popular all over the world, including ESPECIALLY in most of Asia, then you should travel some more.

NBA Grows in China | Variety

"The hoops-crazed country is the NBA’s biggest overseas market. . . The NBA’s second Chinese New Year Celebration, which featured 23 live games televised and streamed to Chinese auds over eight days, reached 107 million fans on television and digital media last month, an increase of more than 11% compared to last year’s first-ever celebration.

Last year, the NBA’s Chinese website registered 3.3 billion page views; this year, that number rose by 34% to 4.5 billion page views, while during the 2012-13 regular season, total video streams for the NBA rose 169% over the 2011-12 season, from 1.2 billion to 3.2 billion."

Fringe recognition is an appropriate description for most of the rugby and cricket that takes place in the UK. Not for the NBA (or the NHL for that matter -- go to Canada or Russia, will you)

Michael Jordan and Lebron James are global icons on a level that's not even approached by most soccer stars (let alone cricket and rugby players that operate in relative global obscurity outside of a handful of countries), and NBA teams are like traveling circus shows when they go abroad.
The NBA definitely has eyes on China, but these figures are not very remarkable for a country of 1.3 billion in which 300 million play the sport. Basketball is china's most popular sport. Beyond the obvious marketing and hype, the natives are more embroiled in their local competitions than the NBA. There is a difference between a certain franchise being broadcast to a nation, and it being followed fervently.
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Blighty
531 posts, read 591,675 times
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According to the NFL, the league is "booming" in London with sell out crowds. In reality, it has about as much traction as women's soccer.
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:07 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,546 posts, read 3,277,620 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousseff View Post
The NBA definitely has eyes on China, but these figures are not very remarkable for a country of 1.3 billion in which 300 million play the sport. Basketball is china's most popular sport. Beyond the obvious marketing and hype, the natives are more embroiled in their local competitions than the NBA. There is a difference between a certain franchise being broadcast to a nation, and it being followed fervently.
I am not sure what "followed fervently" means and that's not the relevant metric. One could also say that the English Premier League is not followed fervently anywhere outside the British isles.

The issue is global recognition. The fact that basketball is the #1 sport in the most populous country in the world, and the NBA (which is by far the dominant league in that sport) gets significant media coverage and attention there would seem to undercut the argument advanced by a few that all US leagues have only fringe recognition outside the US.
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:19 AM
 
514 posts, read 467,707 times
Reputation: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
I am not sure what "followed fervently" means and that's not the relevant metric. One could also say that the English Premier League is not followed fervently anywhere outside the British isles.

The issue is global recognition. The fact that basketball is the #1 sport in the most populous country in the world, and the NBA (which is by far the dominant league in that sport) gets significant media coverage and attention there would seem to undercut the argument advanced by a few that all US leagues have only fringe recognition outside the US.
Feel free to believe what you are told rather than what you observe. The NBA is certainly talked about in China and it's definitely on the rise, brought to popularity by the likes of Yao Ming, but it's still in the periphery of the cultural domain. In a country of that size and influence, one can't honestly say that it is as influential as the hype would claim.
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:26 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,546 posts, read 3,277,620 times
Reputation: 1924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousseff View Post
Feel free to believe what you are told rather than what you observe. The NBA is certainly talked about in China but it's still in the periphery of the cultural domain. In a country of that size and influence, one can't honestly say that it is as influential as the hype would claim.
Again -- we are talking about relative global recognition of various sports leagues here. I am not saying that every Chinese person wakes up and goes to bed every day thinking about the NBA. And yes, of course, there is also a lot of hype involved. But if the NBA is "on the periphery of the cultural domain" in China (which apparently registers 4.5 billion views a year on the NBA website) then the same could be said with regard to the English Premier League in every country outside of the UK and Ireland. It's all relative.
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:28 AM
 
2 posts, read 1,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzrovian View Post
Ok but nobody in India and Pakistan cares about the county cricket games in London, while millions of people in Canada, Russia, Ukraine, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic, etc follow the NHL (where most of their best players play). That's the difference if you lot really wanna talk about "world wide following".
As a Swede i can assure you that MUCH more people watch EPL than NHL here, its not even close. I am pretty confident its the same in the other countries as well you mention bar Canada. Football simply dwarf any other sport here in Europe.
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