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View Poll Results: Which city is more powerful?
New York City 106 57.30%
London 79 42.70%
Voters: 185. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-18-2017, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Western Massachusetts
44,607 posts, read 35,339,994 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
I used London tube earlier this month and wasn't that impressed. Yes, it works and goes everywhere, but the system is outdated, the trains are really hot inside because no AC and no escalators in a lot of stations. Tokyo for example had a much more modern system.
it's still less outdated than NYC's...
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Old 09-18-2017, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
5,042 posts, read 1,549,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I realize this and there's no way that New Yorkers would go for this--it'd come out to approximately triple what many pay now as a minimum. People were having fits with the most recent fare hike and on an unlimited monthly 30-day pass that worked out to $4.50 more a month.

I'm very open to fare hikes though. I think if and when the RFID cards are finally rolled out, I'd be in favor of very modest fare hikes like the last one for people to get New York City resident cards and then charge massive increases to London-level pricing for everyone else though I'd be wary that it might push the throngs of tourists to use cabs and uber/lyft excessively.

I think the biggest thing that NYC needs to do, besides build the second set of Hudson River tunnels so they can fix the current ones, is to work commuter rail into the general system better via through-running and consolidated services where the commuter trains cross through Manhattan with multiple stops rather than terminate at a single one and then have to reverse and back out again. That would easily be the biggest improvement to the system whose issues are mostly during peak commuter periods. This means that a much broader number of commuter rail riders don't need to transfer to buses or the busy subway system, but instead have an increased chance they'd be dropped off within walking distance of their workplace. It'd mean that people living in one side of the greater metropolitan area has access to jobs on the other side without a massive number of transfers. It means that for the price of some organizational restructuring and relatively little additional construction and equipment, city residents essentially get what are effectively additional rapid transit lines.
NYC certainly needs some kind of strategy, although the LIRR, Metronorth, PATH, and NJ Transit are all good suburban systems. The problem with building new rail systems, as Crossrail (15 Billion) demonstrates is that it can be very expensive and Crossrail 2 is projected to cost an eye watering 31 Billion. Thameslink offered a cheaper alternatve in relation to existing lines, as does London Overground which may takeover more lines in the future.

In the meantime a good cheap bus service and increasing bus lanes and bus priority schemes whould take some of the pressure off the subway for a relatively cheap investment, as the issue in New York seems to be constant funding clashes between the City and the state.
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Old 09-18-2017, 02:48 PM
 
Location: London, United Kingdom
6,114 posts, read 6,639,059 times
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I would imagine the grand majority of the people that live in New York share the same outlook for their city as Londoners do for theirs. It is more "important" that both cities internalize and become the best possible versions of themselves that they can be. That's really what will leave a mark.

A discussion with regard to "importance" on the blogosphere is just a means to pass time and have fun. Importance is something that people in cities like Washington D.C. or Brasilia or the like need to cling on to, given that the cities themselves are well under-utilized and underdeveloped in many respects. Some of those aspects being a defined culinary scene, arts, performing arts, localized culture, traditional values, a creative economy not founded on the pillars of government, so on and so forth.

I used to live in the Washington D.C. area, so I don't mean for this to sound like a hit on the city. However, to an extent it is true, the city still has a long way to go and something like "importance" is really all they can cling onto to compare themselves to more mature and developed cities of the world like Beijing, Moscow, Paris, Buenos Aires, Santiago, and so on and so forth. Washington has come a long way, that too in just 15-20 years, but still has a longer road ahead of it. See, this is why the question of importance isn't really meaningful. If you live in a city where importance is most of what you can hang your hat on, then you don't truly live in a great city at all. Maybe a good city but not a great one. Washington D.C. is the second best city in the Northeast Corridor but that doesn't mean much when compared to the rest of its own country (i.e. against Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco), its own continent (i.e. the aforementioned cities in the U.S. plus Toronto and Mexico City, maybe and increasingly more Panama City), and most especially in the world at-large.

I think, objectively speaking, that New York is more important than London by a little bit, but in actuality this sort of thing doesn't really matter to us. It doesn't matter to Londoners, it probably doesn't to New Yorkers either. These aren't those types of cities. For example, I think London is ever so slightly more important than Tokyo, not that importance really matters, but I look at Tokyo as an excellent global city and a role model in many ways. There are things about Tokyo that I would love it if we took a page out of their playbook and applied here in London and vice versa. I'm sure London has many traits that Tokyo residents would like to have too. In contrast, despite how important Washington D.C. is, I wouldn't want London to go after anything they have in Washington D.C., which by itself should speak volumes.

Last edited by Facts Kill Rhetoric; 09-18-2017 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:06 AM
 
894 posts, read 517,109 times
Reputation: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
I used London tube earlier this month and wasn't that impressed. Yes, it works and goes everywhere, but the system is outdated, the trains are really hot inside because no AC and no escalators in a lot of stations. Tokyo for example had a much more modern system.
The Tube is a mixed bag depending on the line. The rolling stock is not standardized (yet), so riding on the Northern Line is a very different experience in terms of modernity and comfort compared to, for example, the Jubilee Line.

The premium, though, if you want to compare it with other services around the world, is that the Tube has a clear plan for development into the future. There's a tangible sense of things improving over time, which you don't get in other cities in its class.

This might give you some perspective into the mindset of the people here who are always ranting and raving about London. It's a great feeling to return to different places you haven't been to in months just to notice all the different improvements and changes.

Sometimes you have many minor changes, such as new sidewalks or more attractive street engineering. Sometimes there are radical alterations in the ambience and energy of an area. I'm sure many here remember what Waterloo used to look like.


Last edited by Hightower72; 09-19-2017 at 06:31 AM..
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Old 09-19-2017, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
5,042 posts, read 1,549,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hightower72 View Post
The Tube is a mixed bag depending on the line. The rolling stock is not standardized (yet), so riding on the Northern Line is a very different experience in terms of modernity and comfort compared to, for example, the Jubilee Line.

The premium, though, if you want to compare it with other services around the world, is that the Tube has a clear plan for development into the future. There's a tangible sense of things improving over time, which you don't get in other cities in its class.

This might give you some perspective into the mindset of the people here who are always ranting and raving about London. It's a great feeling to return to different places you haven't been to in months just to notice all the different improvements and changes.

Sometimes you have many minor changes, such as new sidewalks or more attractive street engineering. Sometimes there are radical alterations in the ambience and energy of an area. I'm sure many here remember what Waterloo used to look like.


London and the UK has some good transport planning when compared to some cities and there has been some very good improvements, with more planned.

Transport for a world city: A National Infrastructure Commission report

Planning for the future - Transport for London

Investing in London - Network Rail

Rail renaissance: dealing with the consequences of success - Gov.UK

Our Railway Upgrade Plan - Network Rail



Last edited by Brave New World; 09-19-2017 at 01:30 PM..
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
5,042 posts, read 1,549,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
I used London tube earlier this month and wasn't that impressed. Yes, it works and goes everywhere, but the system is outdated, the trains are really hot inside because no AC and no escalators in a lot of stations. Tokyo for example had a much more modern system.
Given that we haven't had much of a summer this year, I fail to see how any one could have been too hot, however most of the system does have air conditioning in relation to the sub suface lines and S7 and S8 Stock which has just had it's final delivery at a cost of 1.5 Billion, whilst all tube lines have or are being upgraded and that includes new wifi signaling to vastly increase train numbers. The Tube having two types of trains, one for the sub-surface lines and a different stock for the deep lines.

Whilst all other forms of transport have air conditioning including London Overground, Regional Rail, National Network Rail, Docklands Light Railway (DLR), Tramlink, Buses and of course the new Crossrail services.

London Underground S7 and S8 Stock - Wikipedia

Bombardier Transportation completes manufacture of UK's largest ever rolling stock order for London Underground (LU)

The deep lines are to receive new stock in 2023 under the 'New Tube for London' improvements, and will have air conditioning throughout, whilst the new trains will also be driverless. The DLR currently being the only driverless system.

Improving the trains - Transport for London

New Tube for London — PriestmanGoode

New Tube for London - Wikipedia

The New Tube for London.



Last edited by Brave New World; 09-20-2017 at 12:09 PM..
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle
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That's the thing. It was cool/cold outside and the trains were still super hot. I mostly used Piccadilly line and Jubilee line.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:08 AM
 
361 posts, read 273,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botev1912 View Post
That's the thing. It was cool/cold outside and the trains were still super hot. I mostly used Piccadilly line and Jubilee line.
This is not very likely. The jubilee line is also on a par with anything you find in Tokyo, at least.
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Old 09-21-2017, 04:18 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
5,042 posts, read 1,549,925 times
Reputation: 3040
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineBlue View Post
This is not very likely. The jubilee line is also on a par with anything you find in Tokyo, at least.


The Jubilee is a very modern line and although deep has very good 1996 stock, perhaps the Piccadilly line might have had some issues but it is in the process of being upgraded. The Bakerloo and Piccadilly lines are the only tube lines running outdated trains, although the trains have been refurbished over the years and will be replaced by the New Tube for London along with other deep lines.

The Piccadilly Line will be the first line to get the new tube trains as a priority in 2023, and the deep tube lines including the Piccadilly are to be upgraded with new signalling. The Circle, Hammersmith & City and Metroplitan Lines (and sub surface District Line) are currently being upgraded and the Piccadilly and Bakerloo will be next and the current Mayor has committed to resignalling work on the Piccaddilly line to start in 2020, with new trains running from 2023. The other sub-surface lines have already seen significant upgrading as well as new S-Stock trains and carriages.

As for the Northern Line, once the new Camden Tube Station opens in 2024 (north side of Buck Street) it may well become two seperate lines, one running from Edgeware to Kennington/Battesea and the other from High Barnet to Morden through the City, so you might have a Northern and a Southern or perhaps City line. This would increase the lines to 12.

Deep Tube Upgrade Programme - Transport for London



Last edited by Brave New World; 09-21-2017 at 05:10 AM..
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle
5,530 posts, read 7,709,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineBlue View Post
This is not very likely. The jubilee line is also on a par with anything you find in Tokyo, at least.
Hotel was by Southwark station, so I used Jubilee line every day. I noticed some lines have wider trains and others very narrow.
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