Italy. Have you lived there and what did you think of it? (lawyers, taxes)

[Wallaroo]

I think that most people either love or hate Italy - its quite a unique place with quite unique people to say the least. A rich West European country so dirty disorganized and corrupted (and that it is), but with amazing historical buildings and cuisine etc. My big sister have lived and worked in Siena for 7 years, so I have visited the country a lot.

I can say some positive things about Italy for sure, but I will focus on the negative on this one, and I can easily sum up the things about Italy that irritates the hell out of me: Very expensive. Usually a low level of rather unfriendly service all around. Overcrowded. Way too many cars - especially in the cities. Hostile driving. Most newer buildings are butt-ugly - worse than in Germany. Lousy public transport in most cities. Their whole smartass culture - just look at them! Polluted and dirty with lots of junk floating around in most places. Lots of scam and lots of corruption all over the country - Italy was number 67 on the worlds corruption list. I am sure I can come up with more later.

I would love to hear what others (especially North Americans) think of the country, both basically and generally.

[bale002]

You forgot to mention high taxes, though you did mention relatively poor services.

Indeed, among the major western European countries, and possibly OECD countries in general, Italy is arguably the most corrupt and has the most unfavorable tax/public services ratio: it is not Denmark or France, for example.

Because of its history, architecture, cuisine and such things as you mentioned, Italy is great as a student, possibly a wealthy retiree, maybe for someone with a high-end position in a multinational, not to mention wealthy celebrities who have the proverbial Tuscan villa, and of course someone from a wealthy family with a long tradition in the country and good connections in business, politics, the arts.

Otherwise, the negatives that you mentioned will grind down into dust the average person seeking to "get ahead".

But that is the same as almost everywhere. I think the negative about Italy that stands out most is the highly unfavorable taxes/public services ratio, a reflection of its corruption and inefficiency.

A shame too, because it really is a great country that could be much better.

[Crew Chief]

I really enjoyed my squadron's deployemnts to Decimomannu, Sardina! Where's Decimomannu? Right next to Decimoputzu!

[hutch5]

I am Italian and lived in Italy for the first 24 years of my life before moving to differents countries. People always seem quite surprised when I say that I would not like to go back to Italy to live. I love to go and visit the family when I am on holiday and enjoy Italy as a tourist but I would find it really difficult to go back and live there permanently and the people who wrote before me listed quite a few of the reasons.

[BlueWillowPlate]

There is a member here named Bob the Builder who is living in Italy.
Maybe he will see this thread and respond.

[lolagranola]

When my H was in the Navy we lived outside of Naples for 3 years. The first year we lived "on the economy", but kept getting robbed. So we moved to "off-base housing". (without exception every single american I knew got robbed)

I/we loved it.

It seems the rest of Italy isn't too fond of Napoli, and it is rather filthy. But so much charachter! So much history! It is fabulous!!

I miss the food...pizza, pasteries, seafood; I miss the coffee (I was never much of a coffee drinker before then), I miss the pace of life, I miss the views, I miss everything!

Other places we visited there: Rome, Venice, Pisa, Almalfi Coastal towns, Alerabello, and the little town up in the mountains that my grandparents came from.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by lolagranola

I/we loved it.

It seems the rest of Italy isn't too fond of Napoli, and it is rather filthy. But so much charachter! So much history! It is fabulous!!

I miss the food...pizza, pasteries, seafood; I miss the coffee (I was never much of a coffee drinker before then), I miss the pace of life, I miss the views, I miss everything!
.

Yeah, there seems to be a bit of a cultural divide with Italy, North disparages the South etc. I only ever spent a day in Naples, but loved it.
I agree about the colorful character of Napoli.

[bale002]

My view is that one cannot really know a country intimately until he pays taxes to the government of that country, just like the rest of its citizens.

The north/south thing is overblown: Italians had a chance in the early 1990s to seriously restructure the way the country is administered and a majority, both north and south, rejected it.

They even passed a very timid constitutional reform in the 2001-2006 period, and when it came before a national referendum, a majority of Italians, both north and south, rejected it.

The fact is that the majority of Italians accept their inefficient welfare state and they are willing to pay taxes to preserve it. Those who don't agree, or pretend to agree, try to evade. Lots of ways to skin a cat, especially in Italy, though it helps if one is a multinational with an army of accountants and lawyers.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by bale002

My view is that one cannot really know a country intimately until he pays taxes to the government of that country, just like the rest of its citizens.

No doubt this is true.

The fact is that the majority of Italians accept their inefficient welfare state and they are willing to pay taxes to preserve it. Those who don't agree, or pretend to agree, try to evade. Lots of ways to skin a cat, especially in Italy, though it helps if one is a multinational with an army of accountants and lawyers.

Yes.
Sometimes it does seem like there are other problems in the south that might not exist up north....but I don't live there, I don't know the whole story.
I've been periodically following the chronic trash problems in Naples.
The problems around Naples, a city long defined by both its loveliness and squalor, are complicated, raising worries about tourism, ongoing inequity in poor southern Italy and the local mafia, the camorra.
But put simply, the bottom line seems the failure of politics, never a strong point in Italy.
the latest.

[lolagranola]

My view is that one cannot really know a country intimately until he pays taxes to the government of that country

That's probably true. Living there, I never could quite figure out their politics. And not being fluent, I didn't understand the arguing on the news. The Italian people seem much more self-sufficient on an individual level than we Americans.

The north/south differences were huge from what I could see. But I didn't hear people complaining of it in any way, nor did I hear southern Italians being resentful of northern...the only grumbling I heard against any one region was the rest of Italy not wanting to be judged by how Naples is percieved! Of course, my circle consisted of many more Americans than Italians. So my opinion of Italy has to do with what the country offers, not with it's infrastructure and policies.

I hope to visit next year (on the way to Africa!)!