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Old 09-07-2015, 09:55 AM
 
80 posts, read 74,800 times
Reputation: 42

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Syrians need help, that is obvious

but... who caused all this chaos?

Several decades ago, the middle east was rather a stable region of the world mostly ruled by families, kings etc.

Eventually the region turned into war, countries like afghanistan de-evolve and ended up being the disaster they're today

Other places like Iraq were torn into pieces and now is on the brink of civil war due to the removal of Saddam hussein who kept the country stable with all the ethnic groups living in peace

Syria is a mess, two decades ago it was a rather prosperous society

Lebanon keeps periodically getting bombed and destroyed

it's obvious the west has a lot to answer for..... especially the UK and the US

in north africa they removed Gaddafi who was a buffer between africa and Europe, with him out of the equation europe is facing a tidal wave of africans flooding not only lybia but nearby italy.

Isn't America a bit of a toxic influence in Europe?

I mean Europe has gone THRU HELL thanks to the US influence in the region, and it seems its gonna continue going thru hell for decades to come!

 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,119 posts, read 18,921,258 times
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After the USA was attacked on 911, Bush made a huge mistake by saying Al Queda was to blame and going after that group only when in fact, the Muslim religion is to blame and they will continue to attack as they have for over a thousand years. You either submit and take on their stupid ideas or fight, you have no other option.

The Middle East has been fu###ed up for hundreds of years due to their religion of war and insane ideas. The USA didn't pick the fight correctly, that was a huge mistake and we and others are paying for that mistake.
 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:10 AM
 
80 posts, read 74,800 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
After the USA was attacked on 911, Bush made a huge mistake by saying Al Queda was to blame and going after that group only when in fact, the Muslim religion is to blame and they will continue to attack as they have for over a thousand years. You either submit and take on their stupid ideas or fight, you have no other option.

The Middle East has been fu###ed up for hundreds of years due to their religion of war and insane ideas. The USA didn't pick the fight correctly, that was a huge mistake and we and others are paying for that mistake.
I don't think islam is to blame exclusively, while religion is **** and is partly because of it, it's also true America and the Soviet union especially have caused horrible chaos there!
 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:12 AM
 
80 posts, read 74,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krilin View Post
It was a complex area but quite manageable until Israel.
Israel was a creation of the UK

(Can britain stay in their island already and stop playing world empire?) they have caused so much chaos all over the planet!
 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,119 posts, read 18,921,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayser View Post
Israel was a creation of the UK

(Can britain stay in their island already and stop playing world empire?) they have caused so much chaos all over the planet!
I believe the creation of Israel was a mistake. But the base problem is the religion that demands war against all Infidels. Islam is at war with the world.

As long most of the adherents of the superstition were broke and tending sheep, there was not a major problem but since Europeans and Americans found oil and showed them how to drill and process oil, they have the money to buy technological weapons and cause mass destruction.

On the whole, the UK made some big mistakes but also made more good decisions than anyone else. Can anyone point to a country or culture that is faultless?
 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krilin View Post
Not at atll, the balfour declaration was forced by the US, and the UK helped the Arab Legion, Wingate, that defeated Israel, but Americans forced their withdrawal.

Without the US, there would be no Israel.

Islam is at war with the world? Who says so?
I was reading that ISIS is in fact a creation of the US government (but you never know with all the conspiracies), however is not the first time America trains and arms armies and dictators and then these trainees get out of their hands and turn into tyrants!
 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:44 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,677,694 times
Reputation: 7872
If the US had just left them alone instead of always interfering in an attempt to support some anti-government force those countries would definitely be better off. A lot fewer people would have died.

People don't want your American freedom, stop selling it when the real reason is dollar and oil hegemony.
 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:54 AM
 
10,275 posts, read 10,288,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
If the US had just left them alone instead of always interfering in an attempt to support some anti-government force those countries would definitely be better off.
The U.S. chose not to interfere in Syria, and they got ISIS. How's that working out for the Middle East?

The fact is that the U.S. is a convenient punching bag. There is nothing they can do in the Middle East that is right. They get blamed for interfering and blamed for not interfering.
 
Old 09-07-2015, 10:54 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,330 posts, read 14,249,190 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post

the real reason is dollar and oil hegemony.
This is pretty much on the money. It mostly has to do with global oil/energy politics, as well as arms sales and so also, well, money. Oil, still, and arms are, always were and always will be, pillars of the money supply.

As long as the fighting is mostly contained to the desert regions and away from the coast ... everyone is willing to sell arms to everyone and traffic oil.

The best thing that could happen to the people of what in the agricultural age was the fertile crescent and in the industrial age has been the oil crescent is for oil to fade out as a pillar of the global money supply and they - or better their ruling classes - learn to live within their means unmolested and not molesting.

But I don't see that happening for many decades, and maybe another century at least.

In the meantime, the ruling classes of the countries of early industrialization need a new underclass.

So, in a sick way, it sort of works out.

Good Luck!

Last edited by bale002; 09-07-2015 at 11:09 AM..
 
Old 09-07-2015, 11:02 AM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,677,694 times
Reputation: 7872
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOLA101 View Post
The U.S. chose not to interfere in Syria, and they got ISIS. How's that working out for the Middle East?

The fact is that the U.S. is a convenient punching bag. There is nothing they can do in the Middle East that is right. They get blamed for interfering and blamed for not interfering.
You think the US didn't interfere in Syria? No open bombing but didn't refrain from all the support for the rebels in order to take advantage of the situation.

It is a punching bag because it's exceeding annoying. It applies double standard everywhere and sticks it's nose where it doesn't belong all the time.

Hardly anyone will blame it for not interfering, especially the result is almost always more chaos and suffering of the people. You know what's most unbearable? It always talks as if it were a saint.
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