Study abroad in Sweden (low crime, home, buy)

[Sweden]

Ok, I just want to say that it is a myth that Sweden has one of the highest sucicide rates in the world (as you also can see on that Wikipedia- list). Swedes are also among the "happiest" people on earth, placing themselves 7th on a recent list (where Denmark was number one).

You CAN most certainly plan for out-doors activities (we have SMHI, the Swedish metereological institure, who gives us very accurate, for the most time, information on what the weather will be like for the next 6 days aheah), just maybe not with as 100% accuracy as in warmer countries. But, life isn't perfect

It is not the socialist upbringing that has shaped the Swedish mentality (maybe to some degree, but most certainly not all of it) because, as stated earlier, that would mean that we would be just like the Danes or Norweigans or Chinese or Russians, etc. It's part of the Swedish mentality to be reserved and "stiff", and it's due to many complex reasons, one being Jäntelagen, which Swedes are very keen on following, consciously or unconsciously.
Sweden was "ruled" by the socialistic party during almost the entire 20th century, so if our "mentality" was due to socialism, we would have been the same as we were at the beginning of the last century. Plus, the "ruling" parties right now are right-winged parties, and Swedes still act the same way as before

Ok, I've looked up how to become a fire fighter in Sweden, and according to the person I wrote to (who works at Räddningsverket), a foreign national must, in order to be able to apply for the 2-year education recuired, show knowledge of the Swedish language equivalent to that of course B (it's a Swedish course you take in gymnasiet- which is sort of the equivalence to the US high school and first year of college, starting after grade 9 with grade 1 and ends ith grade 3, which is the grade I'm attending right now. I don't know how much Swedish you would actually have to know to be able to pass that course, but you'd have to be able to speak maybe as good Swedish as I speak English right now. If that makes any sense, hehe).

To be able to see if the foreign edcuation (high school/college) is admissable in Sweden, contact the College/University agency, Högskoleverket, at www.vhs.se - - 301 .
(I've looked up their English site, and must say that it is very poor. I'm not even sure what to do when reading the Swedish site... I need to look this up further.)

To see if the fire fighter- training can be used in Sweden (without having to go through the Swedish training), one can contact the different "saving services" (räddningstjänsterna, the different employees) and see if the training and knowledge one has would satisfy their needs and requirements (each "employee" or station has their own demands and equirements, besides from the general demands and requirements everyone shares, and even if one goes through the training in Sweden, one has to do tests at the station one wants to work at just to become alligeable for the job. And even if one has been a fire fighter for 20 years, and moves to another province, one has to do tests at the new station just to become alligeable for the job. I was told this by a local fire fighter some weeks age at the education-day at my school.)



The 2-year long training to become a fire fighter in Sweden is in much made up by physical training, different dramatizations of accidents, theoretical lessons and tests, etc.
In Sweden, the "fire fighters" don't just extinguish fires, but they also teach people (for example school children) about fire and how to prevent it, etc. They also help out at car accidents and other accidents (climbing, for example) and a lot more (which they probably do in the US as well, with a few minor differences, maybe).


I don't know how much sense this made, but I'm hoping some of you understood me anyway, especially you, Cape Diem

[bluepacific]

Originally Posted by moving123456

That all depends on your opinion of the worse climate. I think the hot and dry climate of sothern california sucks.
I'm in San Diego and heading back to Sweden tomorrow. It's hardly a Hot & Dry Climate. I've never been bored with a perfect day.

This has more to do with a Swedish/Scandanavian upbringing than a socialist one. People in heavily Swedish/Norwegian settled areas of the United States like MN have a similar culture even today. If it was caused by a Socialist upbringing the Danish and Dutch would act the same way.

You can't compare Swedes with the Danes. The Danish are more out going and friendly. Actually they remind me more of their cousins , the Germans that way. I love going to Denmark for Holiday. However , unlike most of the Swedes who go there , my purpose in visiting is not to load up appliance dollies bringing back a lot of Booze on the Stena Line ferry. Unfortunately for the Danish, they has that 'We Are The World" open arms policy of years ago , they now have a huge problem with the muslim community rising up and so personal safety is a concern for many. This has given an excuse for those neo-nazi groups to gain popularity. However the countryside and small towns are still a beautiful place to stay.

[Hasdrubal]

you should use public transportation over there. the streets of Stockholm are like an everyday top-model parade, if you were driving your own car you could get distracted and have some misfortune!!

[Charlotte.Ellinor]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

You can't compare Swedes with the Danes. The Danish are more out going and friendly. Actually they remind me more of their cousins , the Germans that way. I love going to Denmark for Holiday. However , unlike most of the Swedes who go there , my purpose in visiting is not to load up appliance dollies bringing back a lot of Booze on the Stena Line ferry. Unfortunately for the Danish, they has that 'We Are The World" open arms policy of years ago , they now have a huge problem with the muslim community rising up and so personal safety is a concern for many. This has given an excuse for those neo-nazi groups to gain popularity. However the countryside and small towns are still a beautiful place to stay.

I can't believe what a negative picture you've got of Sweden. I really think that Sweden is a wonderful country!

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

You can't compare Swedes with the Danes. The Danish are more out going and friendly.

Compared to the Swedes you are correct. Compared to Americans, Danes seem a lot like the Swedes. I have family (in laws) in Denmark, and they are very reserved. More outgoing than Swedes, but not that much more outgoing.

[bluepacific]

Originally Posted by dkf747

Compared to the Swedes you are correct. Compared to Americans, Danes seem a lot like the Swedes. I have family (in laws) in Denmark, and they are very reserved. More outgoing than Swedes, but not that much more outgoing.

Danish to me however are more outgoing. One thing I noticed about them compare to the Swedes , is they smoke like a train and drink like a fish. Swedes tend to do that binge drink thing Friday and Saturday nights or night before any Holiday.

Now to get back to the subject at hand. Let's discuss foreign students who may want to go to school and study in Sweden. Yes , the schooling is free in many cases , as long as you can pay for your books and support yourself through money brought over or a grant from your country or anything like that. Students here that I have seen are mostly from Africa and Asia , although I'm sure many other countries are represented.

Originally Posted by Charlotte.Ellinor

I can't believe what a negative picture you've got of Sweden. I really think Sweden is a wonderful country

I can understand your view if you are Swedish or a white European living or visiting in Sweden. However there is another darkside.

Well here is an interesting article in an online English news website for English speakers living inside Sweden. There is one particular article which illustrates what I said and also is relevant to anyone who wishes to study in Sweden and work there as an immigrant. This man is from Pakistan and was already a highly educated and certified Engineer in his own country. Here is his story.

The Local - - Swedish News in English.

Originally Posted by TheLocal.SE

"It's as if we immigrants stink of rotten fish"

published April 30, 2008 16:42 CET

When deciding where in the world to study and work, Nabeel Shehzad, an engineer from Pakistan, thought Sweden seemed like the perfect place. But that was before he began to encounter discrimination on a regular basis.

After completing my engineering degree at one of the best institues in Pakistan, I, like many other Pakistanis, chose Sweden over the UK and many other countires for two reasons:

1) You can get a good quality further education for free.
2) Swedish people are not racists and do not discriminate against immigrants.

After coming here as a masters student, most of us feel the first reason to be very true but when it comes to the second part, the story is quite different.

As long as you are a student, you mix with international or Swedish students, which itself is a wonderful experience. You normally don't find discrimination of any kind, probably because your spectrum is not that broad, and you normally don't meet that many working class Swedish people. But once you complete your studies you look for a job and it is from this point on that you begin to see a different side of the picture.

I was lucky enough to get a good job after my Masters. When I started the job, I thought everything would be the same as it use to be when I was a student. But it was not. I will mention a few observations and experiences. (A full list would be too ling)

I had to move to another city because of the job. I soon found that looking for accommodations became a never ending quest. People were willing to rent out their apartments to me as I was earning good money. Everything was fine unless they actually met me, and got to know that I was an immigrant. Then I got the big "No".

In Gothenborg, I dealt with one of the major housing companies and found that they are not inclined to make any offers to non-Swedes. Even if they do make an offer, it is always for areas where only immigrants live. Immigrants are never offered any places where Swedish people live. Why this division ?

There is a discrimination in everyday life. Whenever an immigrant sits on a bus or a tram, and leaves one empty seat next to him, I have found out that the probability of a Swedish person sitting next to him/her is almost zero. When the bus gets absolutely full, most people would prefer to stand than to sit next to an immigrant. It's almost as if they think we stink of rotten fish.

These are just a few examples, and if you look around you will find so many incidents. I am not saying there is nothing good in Sweden. In fact, most things are absolutely wonderful. The system itself works superbly, but the behavior of Swedish people is really strange.

An immigrant who comes here to work is really a blessing in disguise. He pays huge taxes and gets very little from the Swedish government. In fact, a well educated immigrant working here is a bonus for the government, which spends very little on him before he comes but reaps the benefits the rest of his life.

It goes without saying that the immigrant himself gets alot from Sweden by working here, but discriminating against him in different ways is probably not the best thing. Honestly, it really hurts.

Nabeel Shehzad currently works for Jeppesen Systems AB, a Gothenborg-based BOEING Company. Before joining Jeppesen, he received a Masters degree from the Royal Institute of Technology KTH in Stockholm. He also has an engineering degree from GIK Institute of Engineering, Pakistan.

There is so much more that could be said on this subject , but that's for another thread. BTW, I'm caucasion and an immigrant from USA. I have seen these very things and more to immigrants as well and it is never openly talked about , but the article is dead on.

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

The Local - - Swedish News in English.

In Gothenburg I dealt with one of the major housing companies and found that they are not inclined to make any offers to non-Swede. Even if they do make an offer, it is always for areas where only immigrants live. Immigrants are never offered any places where Swedish people live. Why this division?

With all due respect, Göteborg is in NO WAY a good representant for Sweden. Nor is Stockholm or Malmö. Want to find a place to live in those big cities? Well, unless you have 1 000 000 kronor to pay for a small appartment, your place of birth, ethnic origin or whatever plays a very little role.
The place offered, in most cases, depend on how much money one earns. Immigrants (mostly from Iraq and the Middle east and former Yugoslavia) usually don't have much money, hence they live in areas they can afford. And since Sweden allows refugees to move whereever they want as soon as they get permanent residency, many tend to chose to live in areas where there already live plenty of immigrants, this due to the fact that they feel more at home with people from their own places of origin, who come from the same sort of situations, etc.

I live close to Jönköping, and over half of my classmates are immigrants, mostly from the Middle east and South America, and with the exception of two, they all live in better areas than I do. And I'm white, blonde, blue-eyed and speak perfect Swedish. How does that fit the generalization?

Then there is discrimination in everyday life. Whenever an immigrant sits on a bus or a tram and leaves one empty seat next to him, I have found out that the probability of a Swedish person sitting next to him/her is almost zero. When the bus gets absolutely full, most people would prefer to stand than sit next to an immigrant. It’s almost like they think we stink of rotten fish.

To be able to say this, the person clearly hasn't spent much time in Sweden or has gotten to learn the very basic of the Swedish mentality.
DON'T SIT DOWN NEXT TO A PERSON ON A BUS OR TRAIN!
You can have 30 places to sit in a bus, and 15 are taken. The next person getting on the bus will with almost 80 % accuracy NOT sit down next to anyone, but will remain standing.
Don't sit down next to anyone, don't talk to anyone, don't pretend other people are around. This is what we are famous for - we're shy. Extremely shy.
It has NOTHING to do with "usch, that's an immigrant, let's not sit next to him/her", it has to do with respect and shyness.

1 out of 9 Swedes are either born outside of Sweden or has a parent who was. My best friends are almost all born outside of Sweden, in non-European countries, and they are not white nor do they speak perfect Swedish. But I have never heard them say anything about them being discriminated nor that their parents are/have.
Yes, discrimination does most certainly occur, and it is a problem, but it is a problem in EVERY single country in this world that accepts immigrants. Sweden is the best country in Europe to take care of immigrants and treat them like "Swedes".
Are there problems in store for immigrants? Yes.
Does it happen to all immigrants? No.
Could it be better? Yes.
Is living in Sweden a horrible experience for all immigrants? No.

It's like everywhere. Come and blend in, and you'll be fine. Like Nabeel Shehzad said himself:

I am not saying there is nothing good in Sweden. In fact, most things are absolutely wonderful. The system itself works superbly, but the behavior of Swedish people is really strange.

Amen to that. We have some strange behaviour, and we know it, but that's who we are. And we think people in Pakistan are strange too.

[bluepacific]

Surprise , Surprise!! Well you had to figure the resident secret agent Damage Control would come on board with this one.

Students from other countries , especially those of 3rd World countries , just take caution.

I actually challenged myself yesterday when riding the tram and buses to observe what happens to immigrants. Well I was'nt disappointed. I Swedish man sitting in a seat with an empty seat next to him stood up to get out at this next stop. Two African women wanted the two seats he was vacating. He put his arm up and prevented them from entering and motioned for two blonde haired , blue eyed Swedish women to come take the seats. They gladly accepted. The two African women said nothing. They simply rolled their eyes and whispered to each other and moved to the door where they could hang on to the rail. Oh , and this is not restricted to one or just two or three localities. It's prevelant everywhere. The only place where things are fairly quiet and less crime and such is northern Sweden.

When I first came here I was appalled and angry at actually seeing this junk being carried on in public view with no one questioning anything. This was supposed to be the "We Are The World" super-socialist Eutopian example of how things should be done. You would have thought I was in the USA in the deep south in the 1950s. My wife was nervous at times because I often said things to some of these biggots. Since then I've had to block out alot of what goes on here for the sake of my own sanity. Needless to say , I'm tired of it. In a couple of years , I'm outta here.

This country is no different then any other country , which includes the United States, that has taken on immigrants because it's own modern western people are too lazy or arrogant to do small jobs. Young people like every other country are not disciplined or taught the meaning of working for something. Everything is demanded on a silver platter. When the immigrants do come at the governments requests, then they are accused of taking jobs away from the natural born citizens. Typical industrialized western thinking which EVERY country has.

Again , foreign students , you just need to be cautious. To bring the subject back on track with this thread, here is a warning to foreign students about ********* stealing their identity. To be honest, this warning should apply to everyone everywhere.

The Local - Fraudsters target foreign students

[60-minutes-II]

I like the Swedes. They are shy but nice.

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

[b]Surprise , Surprise!! Well you had to figure the resident secret agent Damage Control would come on board with this one.

Is this how you feel about yourself? Is it not better if we just discuss the matter, and not take on a role or something? I don't dislike you, and you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you on most things you've said, but so what?

Originally Posted by bluepacific

I actually challenged myself yesterday when riding the tram and buses to observe what happens to immigrants. Well I was'nt disappointed. I Swedish man sitting in a seat with an empty seat next to him stood up to get out at this next stop. Two African women wanted the two seats he was vacating. He put his arm up and prevented them from entering and motioned for two blonde haired , blue eyed Swedish women to come take the seats. They gladly accepted. The two African women said nothing. They simply rolled their eyes and whispered to each other and moved to the door where they could hang on to the rail. Oh , and this is not restricted to one or just two or three localities. It's prevelant everywhere. The only place where things are fairly quiet and less crime and such is northern Sweden.

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences of discrimination. But in my 19 years in Sweden, I have never ever seen or heard of anything of this sort. Where is it happening? Göteborg? Again, Göteborg is not a good example of how things are done in Sweden. And, even in Göteborg, where I have plenty of relatives, have I ever seen or heard about anything of that sort. It cannot be prevelant everywhere, since no one I have talked to about this has experienced it or seen it happen.

Might it be that you, who appearantly does not like Sweden even a little, is looking for this sort of behaviour, so that you can justify your opinion of us Swedes? The same way non-Americans many times are only looking for bad American behaviour, and not see the good you do, so that we/they can keep up with the opinion of "the US is so bad"?
It is human nature to do so, but we should all be aware of what we are doing and why, and to remain open to the possibility of being wrong.
Are things like mentioned above happening? Probably, but they are most certainly not a common sight in Swedish cities. Keep in mind that individuals are individuals, not entire people, and that just becuause someone does something, it doesn't mean every one does it. And it is not common practice.
And Göteborg, Stockholm and Malmö where most immigrants live, are not good indicators on what life is like in Sweden, just as it is wrong to base one's entire opinion on American life and behaviour on that of New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago.
We have 180 cities in Sweden, not 3.

In regard to what you said first: you didn't mention who came first, the African ladies or the two blonde girls. Because it might have been that he had noticed that they came first, and gave them the seats because of that. That has happened to me personally and my friends very many times. We've wanted a seat, but someone else had been waiting for one longer than we had, and they were given it.
I ride the bus every day, and so does all my friends. If this type of discrimination really was prevelant everywhere, wouldn't we know about it and experience it ourselves atleast once? Does not the fact that we have never experienced it or seen it happen prove that it is not prevelant everywhere?

When the immigrants do come at the governments requests, then they are accused of taking jobs away from the natural born citizens. Typical industrialized western thinking which EVERY country has.

What news are you reading? Yes, people are a bit upset that contractors hire construction workers from Latvia or Poland etc. to do the jobs, because they do not have to work for the same wages and do not have to follow the rules set by the Unions, but that's how the discussion is going on TV etc. People are appauled that they can do that, and set aside the workers their human rights, but they're not talking about it being wrong to hire people from other countries instead of using the own work force.

The immigrants that come "at the government's request" are those who are doctors, engineers etc. We don't have enough of them, and I don't think many people oppose people coming from other countries (mainly the EU, because that's where they're coming from, since Sweden like any other country does not accept the education from other countries outside of the EU) to help us.

I suggest to anyone interested in about how life is in Sweden and what goes on, to not read the Local and only the Local. I've been reading it myself for a couple of months, and it is by no means better than Aftonbladet or Expressen etc. who themselves are accused of being just "tabloids with a splash of news". Read Dagens Nyheter, local news papers, listen to Ekot, etc., since these are real news papers who do not care if many buy the paper or not and who therefore have news that are much wider than those of "tabloid papers". Not saying the Local is a "tabloid paper", but that it is not much better than a "tabloid paper". In my experience.

There are always different experiences of what a country is like, and there will always be discrimination, against natives and immigrants, and the best way of determining for one self what a country is like to one self, is to experience it your self. I have no idea what the OP is planning to do, since I have not heard from him in a while, but I'm hoping he still feels welcome to come here if he wants and can.