Study abroad in Sweden (student loans, promotional, college)

[bluepacific]

Originally Posted by Sweden

Is this how you feel about yourself? Is it not better if we just discuss the matter, and not take on a role or something? I don't dislike you, and you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree with you on most things you've said, but so what? No I don't dislike you either , in actual fact I probably agree with your website for saving Old Growth Forests since I am a forester and landscaper by education. However , I unfortunately don't believe mankind will stem to tide of destruction of such things. That of course is for another thread.


I'm sorry to hear about your experiences of discrimination. But in my 19 years in Sweden, I have never ever seen or heard of anything of this sort. Where is it happening? Göteborg? Again, Göteborg is not a good example of how things are done in Sweden. And, even in Göteborg, where I have plenty of relatives, have I ever seen or heard about anything of that sort. It cannot be prevelant everywhere, since no one I have talked to about this has experienced it or seen it happen. Personally , I have not been discriminated against. As I stated before , I am white. However , I never like seeing the discrimination of darker races in either Europe or the United states. For all the supposed modern day inlightenment going around from the "We Are The World" crowd , I see the world going backwards towards hatred again. I also don't believe the United Nations is the answer , although i do believe it will take power away from all Sovereignties soon.

Might it be that you, who appearantly does not like Sweden even a little, is looking for this sort of behaviour, so that you can justify your opinion of us Swedes? The same way non-Americans many times are only looking for bad American behaviour, and not see the good you do, so that we/they can keep up with the opinion of "the US is so bad"? True , but I would probably agree with them for many of those reasons. The only thing I don't tolerate are people like Mr Michael Moore , who by the way is celebrated over here as a champion of truth about America, lies through his teeth on every issue. Personally when it comes to politics , I have always refused to vote or get involved in anything the United States does or pursues and promotes as it's agenda of Pax Americana forced upon this planet. I prefer to be neutral.
It is human nature to do so, but we should all be aware of what we are doing and why, and to remain open to the possibility of being wrong.
Are things like mentioned above happening? Probably, but they are most certainly not a common sight in Swedish cities. Keep in mind that individuals are individuals, not entire people, and that just becuause someone does something, it doesn't mean every one does it. And it is not common practice.
And Göteborg, Stockholm and Malmö where most immigrants live, are not good indicators on what life is like in Sweden, just as it is wrong to base one's entire opinion on American life and behaviour on that of New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago.
We have 180 cities in Sweden, not 3. Get the immigrants into any isolated small town and watch the attitude change quickly.

I ride the bus every day, and so does all my friends. If this type of discrimination really was prevelant everywhere, wouldn't we know about it and experience it ourselves atleast once? Does not the fact that we have never experienced it or seen it happen prove that it is not prevelant everywhere? Well you can keep in mind that even Nabeel said it was'nt a problem in the mix of international student population. It was once you try and assimilate where the problem begins.


What news are you reading? Yes, people are a bit upset that contractors hire construction workers from Latvia or Poland etc. to do the jobs, because they do not have to work for the same wages and do not have to follow the rules set by the Unions, but that's how the discussion is going on TV etc. People are appauled that they can do that, and set aside the workers their human rights, but they're not talking about it being wrong to hire people from other countries instead of using the own work force.

The immigrants that come "at the government's request" are those who are doctors, engineers etc. We don't have enough of them, and I don't think many people oppose people coming from other countries (mainly the EU, because that's where they're coming from, since Sweden like any other country does not accept the education from other countries outside of the EU) to help us.

I suggest to anyone interested in about how life is in Sweden and what goes on, to not read the Local and only the Local. I've been reading it myself for a couple of months, and it is by no means better than Aftonbladet or Expressen etc. who themselves are accused of being just "tabloids with a splash of news". Read Dagens Nyheter, local news papers, listen to Ekot, etc., since these are real news papers who do not care if many buy the paper or not and who therefore have news that are much wider than those of "tabloid papers". Not saying the Local is a "tabloid paper", but that it is not much better than a "tabloid paper". In my experience. The Local is hardly tabloid. All those articles can be verified on the regular television news here. I understand that the Socialist Eutopia isn't as it use to be as far as low crime goes , but many Swedes in general don't feel that reporting crimes will do any good since the police department seems inept at doing anything about. I actually feel sorry for them , because admittedly much of this crime increase is something totally foreign to this country. To be honest the increase in crime is nothing new to me as I lived in a massive country dominated by every different type of culture for years and sadly they have never perfectly got along together and it's rediculous. But the Swedes are right on the Police inexperience here.

We had an attempt home invasion robbery here last July while we were in bed by two Swedish youths. We scared them away and called the police. They asked if we got a description and if they were still around , otherwise they might send someone over in the morning. That's crazy , but then again they've never dealt with these things before.

There are always different experiences of what a country is like, and there will always be discrimination, against natives and immigrants, and the best way of determining for one self what a country is like to one self, is to experience it your self. I have no idea what the OP is planning to do, since I have not heard from him in a while, but I'm hoping he still feels welcome to come here if he wants and can.

This goes back farther than you realize , but it's for another thread. If you've really only got nineteen years here in Sweden , then you have a lot of history to catch up on. This also is for another thread. I love history and trust me , it's very intriguing. Most older generation Swedes tell me the country and attitude of it's citizens changed drastically in the 1970s. To be honest, I believe it goes back to 1922. Once again , that's for another thread.

Cheers

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

This goes back farther than you realize , but it's for another thread. If you've really only got nineteen years here in Sweden , then you have a lot of history to catch up on. This also is for another thread. I love history and trust me , it's very intriguing. Most older generation Swedes tell me the country and attitude of it's citizens changed drastically in the 1970s. To be honest, I believe it goes back to 1922. Once again , that's for another thread.

Cheers

To be perfectly honest, I don't understand your answers since I don't think they are about what I talked about. I personally may only have 19 years of experience, but my family and other people around me have more years of experience. I have also been brought up in this country, and therefore I have a different insight than had I moved here after my childhood. Also, it is of importance to remember, that natives speak differently about one's country to other natives, than they do when speaking to immigrants. You get a whole other story depending on who you talk to and who you are yourself.
For someone (e.g. of an older generation) to speak to someone who did not experience what one self experienced, one oftentimes goes into the famous mode of "it was better when I was young" etc.
Nostalgia has a way of distorting the truth, and to be able to talk about one's own country (and sound like one is also an expert on how things were done, because one experienced it for one self - even I am doing this on occasion when talking to people from other countries. It's a well known fact) to someone who's whole knowledge of what it was like "back in the days" is based upon others' recollections and stories, will in most cases lead to faulty stories. No one can tell everything, and only the most "interesting" stories will survive to be told.
And, one need to keep in mind that Swedes have a history of loving to talk bad about Sweden. There's always something to complain about, and there's always someone better

We are shy, don't sit next to others on buses and trains, and we love to be "humble" about our country.

My father has a Ph.D in History and is a professor at Stockholm University. My bed time stories growing up were all about Swedish and European history, and if I want to discuss anything with my father, it has to be about "the society today or yesterday" "the battle at Lützen" etc. One does not have to experience history for one self to know about it.
Trust me, I know history and the development of this country extremely well

With that said, in my experience and everyone I have talked to, immigrants in general do not have to fear discrimination. Where ever they are from. Yes, there are cases of discrimination against immigrants, but there are cases of discrimination against us natives too (different universities using quotas where they accept immigrants instead of natives, despite the natives having better grades). There are no utopias in this world, and we just need to accept that.

[BigSwede]

Old people are right.
This country has changed since the 70s.
And it hasn´t changed for the good.

[Sweden]

Originally Posted by BigSwede

Old people are right.
This country has changed since the 70s.
And it hasn´t changed for the good.

Perhaps it hasn't, and it's those darn Moderaterna Just think like this: in 30 years, we'll be saying it was better now than will be then. (And it probably will be better now than it will then, in some areas)
But saying "it was better back in the old days" is a too broad statement. What is it that was better? The health care is better these days than it was in the 70ies, and so is the school, but people continue to look back and say "it was better..."
There was a documentary on SVT1 or 2 two months or so ago (Välfärdsmysteriet, it was called) about this - we use different standards to measure gone years and today. The health care in the 70ies was not as good as it is today, but people think it was. Yes, when it came to the nurses attending to the patients like "little angels" with much more love and understanding than today, the care was better, but when it came to how many people were receiving health care and what kind of help they received, it is by far better today, eventhough the nurses are no longer being "little angels". It depends on what one wants - a higher risk of dying or not being as healthy, or to be well looked after during the stay at the hospital?

We don't use the same standards when comparing yesterday with today, and we tend to romanticise yesterday.
There are less poor people in Sweden than in the 70ies, the health care is better, the education is better, etc.
In the 70ies, Sweden was in the top of countries with the highest suicide rates in the Western world. Now we're on place 22. Something's got to have changed for the better, because people are now more willing to live than in the 70ies.

Everything is most certainly not perfect, and with many of the changes going on right now, it will probably get worse in some areas. But is Sweden today really a worse place to live in than in the 70ies and beyond?

Everything was better back in the days. We had malaria and the plague, no social security, the life expectancy was half that of today just 150 years ago, education was just for the rich in the 17th century... Oh, those were the days!

[bluepacific]

Originally Posted by BigSwede

Old people are right.
This country has changed since the 70s.
And it hasn´t changed for the good.

It's actually been a downhill coarse morally for every country , not just Sweden. The older ones have told me that at one time people used expressions such as excuse me, pardon me , I'm Sorry , etc , when bumping into someone in public or other such circumstance. Today they say absolutely nothing. They look at you as if it were your fault that you were in their way in the first place. We've had many friends comment when coming back from the USA on holiday how common it was to here people use such expressions of apologizing for simple mistakes. My wife and her friend noticed this when they came to visit me for the first time in California. I had never even thought of such a thing as showing consideration and manners to someone else as foreign, as I thought it was something that would be normal to all cultures. But they older ones here told me it changed when the prevailing opinion of Socialist Activism took hold in the early 1970s. At least it's not too late to turn back the clock on what use to be the possitive things that use to be.

Originally Posted by BigSwede

Sweden is not neutral
This country has been kissing NATO ass for a while now and I think our government wants to join. Plus we are members of the EU and have to send soldiers if they require it.

Careful, you are treading on thin ice here. Some folks here think Sweden has always been neutral and no Swede has ever gone to war to kill anyone else. I'm actually curious as to exactly what is taught in schools here as far as history. Hmmmmm I'd say it's close to opening another thread with a different line of thought here.

Once again however, getting back to the original line of thought on Students coming here , I think there are alot of things students can learn from the schools here and take back with them to benefit not just themselves personally , but also their country , especially if they are from a third world country and many are.

[dkf747]

My memory of Sweden, actually an experience that stands out for me, was while riding the high speed train from Stockholm to Gothenburg in 1996. I was sitting in my window seat, half asleep, after a stop somewhere on the way. Suddenly, some guy smacks me hard on the shoulder and says I am in his seat. I pulled out my ticket and showed him and the conductor that I was in the right seat. The conductor then gave him a different seat. No apology or anything like that. The guy wasn't a native Swede from what I could see. I stayed awake after that. I wonder what a so called "shy" Swede would have done?

[forever]

Why would you go to Sweden when Norway is right across the line? :P Seriously, though.. I'd choose Norway over Sweden any day. Sweden is nothing special, really

And the climate in some parts of Norway aint as bad as you'd think, too! Just found out it's about the same as paris!!

[BigSwede]

Originally Posted by forever

Why would you go to Sweden when Norway is right across the line? :P Seriously, though.. I'd choose Norway over Sweden any day. Sweden is nothing special, really

And the climate in some parts of Norway aint as bad as you'd think, too! Just found out it's about the same as paris!!

Why would anyone want to go to Norway?

[internat]

Many Swedes move to Norway for work (particularly nurses and medical doctors) because of the higher salaries there. I think the challenging Norwegian topography is beautiful and spectacular with its long coastline, mountains, deep valleys and fjords. The country is probably not ideal for a city person as even the largest Norwegian cities are small for European, and definitely international standards.

Originally Posted by BigSwede

Why would anyone want to go to Norway?

[Cornerguy1]

Moderator Note:

Interesting, but this has what to do with the original thread topic of studying in Sweden?

Please keep the thread to original topic.