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Old 10-24-2015, 07:19 AM
 
52 posts, read 39,864 times
Reputation: 22

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I'm 29yo liberal European and I'm thinking of moving to ether Canada or Australia - as a skilled worker and permanent resident. For Canada my choices would be ether Vancouver or Anglo part of Montreal, and for Australia, definitely Melbourne. I'm trying to find out what place would I fit better in the sense of "integration" and "type" of liberalism I'm into.

Let me tell you a bit about my self. I have Msc. in Clinical Psychology and specialization in psychotherapy. I lived in few Central-Eastern European countries, Germany and rural Canada. I've traveled extensively around the US (both around the costs and inland), Europe, Africa and Asia. I've never been to Australia, nor any of the major Canadian cities. I consider myself worldly person, with European identity. Culturally I'm definitely central European, but economically and when it comes to foreign policies I'm much more 'American' (Europe's too socialist and pacifist for my taste). Within the US context, socially I like better East Coast of the US, because people are more direct (and less passive aggressive), but I find West Coast of the US better when it comes to easiness to find non-conventional things and people that are into it. I see myself as spiritual, but not religious person.

Although my 'type' of liberalism is hard to put it in any category I would define it as closest to classical liberalism and cultural libertarianism.

I'm liberal in the sense that freedom and liberty are my absolute value, and that individual rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES are always primary. Government should intervene in the sense of promotions, but not limitations, and individuals should 'grow' on their own. In that sense I think that (post)modern pseudo-liberalism had failed. I'm pro abortion, gay rights, legalization of prostitution, legalization of drugs and similar issues, and I'm pro gender equality in individualistic/libertarian sense. Also I'm pro inclusion of ex convicts and similar marginalized people, too. Let's say I have more sympathy for people who have done things wrong and want to change, than 'lazy' and 'stupid' people, and ones in the 'victim role'.

Where I disagree with (post)modern pseudo-liberals is their (IMO) misinterpretation of postmodern theory, extreme relativism and collectivistic and marxist white-men-bashing type of feminism where everything is reduced to cultural/collective level. I highly against political correctness, and all other authoritarian/statist/paternalist ether social (NGO, Media) or government interventions and actions (like misinterpretation of some words like racism and sexism, banning drugs, prostitution and specific consumer products, or raising drinking age or age of consent). I'm pro skilled worker immigration and immigration in general, but I'm against illegal immigration and uncontrolled acceptance of refugees, especially if there are no integration programs (currently happening in Europe). I'm against racism, nationalist, homophobia, but I'm probably a bit of a classist. I'm pro healthy nutrition, environmental actions, and against harsh legislations, but against gun banning, too.

Both Australia and Canada seem like a great places to live, with not much difference, but from what I've researched, pros for Canada would be:

Closer to Europe (where many of my friends live), and much closer to the US (country that always had special place in my heart)
I like their accent better
No poisonous snakes/spiders
Maybe a bit less redneckish culture?
Less hot

And for Australia:

More 'European' culture
Probably a bit easier regulations for my profession
Less modern feminism and political correctness?
I love big cities, so Melbourne seems as a better option.. better than Vancouver
Less rainy

Also I would like to add that I don't have driver's license and don't like the whole car culture thing.

Ok that's about it. However, I'm really interested to hear your opinions where do you think I would fit easier and better.

Thanks a lot.

Last edited by Spiritual Leader; 10-24-2015 at 08:28 AM..
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 10,021,538 times
Reputation: 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual Leader View Post
I'm 29yo liberal European and I'm thinking of moving to ether Canada or Australia - as a skilled worker and permanent resident. For Canada my choices would be ether Vancouver or Anglo part of Montreal, and for Australia, definitely Melbourne. I'm trying to find out what place would I fit better in the sense of "integration" and "type" of liberalism I'm into.

Let me tell you a bit about my self. I have Msc. in Clinical Psychology and specialization in psychotherapy. I lived in few Central-Eastern European countries, Germany and rural Canada. I've traveled extensively around the US (both around the costs and inland), Europe, Africa and Asia. I've never been to Australia, nor any of the major Canadian cities. I consider myself worldly person, with European identity. Culturally I'm definitely central European, but economically and when it comes to foreign policies I'm much more 'American' (Europe's too socialist and pacifist for my taste). Within the US context, socially I like better East Coast of the US, because people are more direct (and less passive aggressive), but I find West Coast of the US better when it comes to easiness to find non-conventional things and people that are into it. I see myself as spiritual, but not religious person.

Although my 'type' of liberalism is hard to put it in any category I would define it as closest to classical liberalism and cultural libertarianism.

I'm liberal in the sense that freedom and liberty are my absolute value, and that individual rights AND RESPONSIBILITIES are always primary. Government should intervene in the sense of promotions, but not limitations, and individuals should 'grow' on their own. In that sense I think that (post)modern pseudo-liberalism had failed. I'm pro abortion, gay rights, legalization of prostitution, legalization of drugs and similar issues, and I'm pro gender equality in individualistic/libertarian sense. Also I'm pro inclusion of ex convicts and similar marginalized people, too. Let's say I have more sympathy for people who have done things wrong and want to change, than 'lazy' and 'stupid' people, and ones in the 'victim role'.

Where I disagree with (post)modern pseudo-liberals is their (IMO) misinterpretation of postmodern theory, extreme relativism and collectivistic and marxist white-men-bashing type of feminism where everything is reduced to cultural/collective level. I highly against political correctness, and all other authoritarian/statist/paternalist ether social (NGO, Media) or government interventions and actions (like misinterpretation of some words like racism and sexism, banning drugs, prostitution and specific consumer products, or raising drinking age or age of consent). I'm pro skilled worker immigration and immigration in general, but I'm against illegal immigration and uncontrolled acceptance of refugees, especially if there are no integration programs (currently happening in Europe). I'm against racism, nationalist, homophobia, but I'm probably a bit of a classist.

Both Australia and Canada seem like a great places to live, with not much difference, but from what I've researched, pros for Canada would be:

Closer to Europe (where many of my friends live), and much closer to the US (country that always had special place in my heart)
I like their accent better
No poisonous snakes/spiders
Maybe a bit less redneckish culture?
Less hot

And for Australia:

More 'European' culture
Probably a bit easier regulations for my profession
Less modern feminism and political correctness?
I love big cities, so Melbourne seems as a better option.. better than Vancouver
Less rainy

Also I would like to add that I don't have driver's license and don't like the whole car culture thing.

Ok that's about it. However, I'm really interested to hear your opinions where do you think I would fit easier and better.

Thanks a lot.
I think they are both pretty liberal... Canada has an edge in terms of gay rights as gay marriage has been legal for over 10 years now and gays have been able to serve openly in the military since the mid 90's. Not sure about Australia but I know gay marriage is not legal.. Canada has also just turfed our conservative government in favour of a Liberal one and the leader is wanting to legalize recreational marijuana (medicinal is already legal)..

As for Big cities.. Vancouver is only the 3rd largest city in Canada. Montreal is the second largest and is about the size of Melbourne maybe a bit smaller.. I also think of all cities in Canada/Australia Montreal would definitely be the most European but learning French would be a necessity!

As for largest cities in each country.. Sydney's metro is about 5 Million while the largest in Canada is Toronto which is between 6.5-7 million and is the largest city in either Australia/Canada -though you excluded Toronto for some reason - it has the largest metro economy in either Canada/Australia, probably the largest European multiculturalism and expat communities and definitely the most multicultural city in Canada, a strong job market and is also very liberal and progressive and probably a lot more like Melbourne than Vancouver would be. Toronto even has Trolley's like Melbourne lol.. Toronto is also quite a bit more urban with a much larger arts, theatre, festival and cultural scene than Vancouver. More people are employed in the arts in Toronto than any other city in Canada and it is the Anglo Canadian Media hub. Vancouver is more beautiful as its close to the mountains and outdoor recreation is better and its winter is more mild than Toronto's. A Montreal or Toronto winter would take some getting used to - even for a European used to colder winters.

Definitely in terms of location Canada is better.. It borders the U.S and both Toronto and Montreal are within an hour and 15 minute flight to cities like New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Washington D.C.. You can drive to New York from Montreal in about 6 hours and its about an 8 hour drive from Toronto. For you, Canada is also a better location due to proximity to Europe.. Most of Western Europe is less than an 8.5 hour flight from Canada and you also can get cheap fares because there is so much Air Carrier Connections between major European cities and Toronto/Montreal. Toronto's connectivity with Europe is about as good as it gets for a city outside Europe.

If you like year round sun and warm/hot weather than the choice is a no brainer of course..

Last edited by fusion2; 10-24-2015 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:42 AM
 
52 posts, read 39,864 times
Reputation: 22
Fusion2, tnx for your answer.

Toronto and Sydney are probably great places, too, but from what I've read Montreal, Vancouver and Melbourne always seemed like a places with more 'soul' and 'identity'.

Canada is definitely better in the terms of location, that's for sure, but what I'm concerned about is amount of classical liberal/libertarian culture I'm looking for. Like I already stated political correctness, radical feminism and similar types of 'censorships' would be something I would have a problem coping with (more so in social sense, in everyday life, and through academia, than legal one).
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Old 10-24-2015, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 10,021,538 times
Reputation: 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual Leader View Post
Fusion2, tnx for your answer.

Toronto and Sydney are probably great places, too, but from what I've read Montreal, Vancouver and Melbourne always seemed like a places with more 'soul' and 'identity'.

Canada is definitely better in the terms of location, that's for sure, but what I'm concerned about is amount of classical liberal/libertarian culture I'm looking for. Like I already stated political correctness, radical feminism and similar types of 'censorships' would be something I would have a problem coping with (more so in social sense, in everyday life, and through academia, than legal one).
No problem Spiritual leader though I think you'd be the first person to say that Vancouver has more 'soul' and identity than Toronto lol... The best descriptive I can say about Vancouver vs Toronto is if you take the natural beauty of things out of the equation, it is Toronto on Valium.. Its just a smaller and more subdued place.. I'm not saying it doesn't have a soul or identity - but more than Toronto - NAH lol..

Montreal is definitely another case - its an exciting, cosmopolitan very fun city etc.. Its got probably the most unique culture in Canada/Australia but obviously that is because it is a French Canadian city in a sea of Anglo.

As for your second paragraph I don't think there is an easy answer to that.. I would recommend you travel and visit the cities on your list in both Australia and Canada and experience them and meet like minded people... Do yourself a favour too though, if you come to Canada than by all means don't overlook Toronto! If you come to Canada you'll probably be flying through Toronto just like if you fly to Australia you'll probably be flying through Sydney anyway lol.. Point is, that I couldn't imagine moving to any country before visiting.. Reading about a place and experiencing it is far far different thing and i'd visit first before regretting such a huge investment in time, energy and visa processes
! I'd be planning a vacation to both Canada and Australia soon before making any commitment to move. That is just good common sense.

Last edited by fusion2; 10-24-2015 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:11 AM
 
2,818 posts, read 5,027,987 times
Reputation: 3758
So you basically are looking for a place where you can be a bitter mysoginist and a racist without being challenged. Have I got the gist of it correctly?
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:13 AM
 
52 posts, read 39,864 times
Reputation: 22
@Fusion2

I completely agree with you, but Eastern Europe is both socially and economically 'dying', so I have no doubt wherever I go overseas it's gonna be better. I'm just trying to make the best choice, haha. Also, I have SOME experience with New World Anglo countries. I already lived in Canada (rural southern Alberta, but visited Calgary), so I'm a bit family with a system, and I've spent 6+ months in the US, in most major cities (30+ states). Bay Area, NYC and Boston are my favorite places. Chicago is also acceptable. But I was not big fan of Denver, LA and surprisingly not even Seattle (a lot of people told me Vancouver is denser and less American..more European, and Asian). I think I didn't like these places that much because I prefer density, or at least good public transportation (meaning: metro).
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:22 AM
 
52 posts, read 39,864 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Stranger View Post
So you basically are looking for a place where you can be a bitter mysoginist and a racist without being challenged. Have I got the gist of it correctly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual Leader View Post
I'm pro gender equality in individualistic/libertarian sense.
...
I'm against racism, nationalist, homophobia
Oh boy, you need to go to ophthalmologist.

So no, I'm just looking for a place where real liberals live, and not people who think they are, but actually aren't. Probably as further away from 'your type'
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 10,021,538 times
Reputation: 3695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual Leader View Post
@Fusion2

I completely agree with you, but Eastern Europe is both socially and economically 'dying', so I have no doubt wherever I go overseas it's gonna be better. I'm just trying to make the best choice, haha. Also, I have SOME experience with New World Anglo countries. I already lived in Canada (rural southern Alberta, but visited Calgary), so I'm a bit family with a system, and I've spent 6+ months in the US, in most major cities (30+ states). Bay Area, NYC and Boston are my favorite places. Chicago is also acceptable. But I was not big fan of Denver, LA and surprisingly not even Seattle (a lot of people told me Vancouver is denser and less American..more European, and Asian). I think I didn't like these places that much because I prefer density, or at least good public transportation (meaning: metro).
Well good luck to you SL!! As I said though, if you are able to visit Canada/Australia I wouldn't overlook the two largest cities with the largest economies in both which potentially means more opportunities for a job! You might find that they meet your expectations and than some!
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Old 10-24-2015, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,263 posts, read 11,276,799 times
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Canada seems more liberal to me.
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Old 10-24-2015, 12:42 PM
 
6,156 posts, read 9,300,724 times
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How about we all just get along and respect each other and that way you can live anywhere?
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