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Old 03-06-2017, 09:46 PM
 
225 posts, read 161,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
My view for what it is worth .......

At some point Israel and the Palestinians are going to have to find a modus vivendi. Call it a common understanding, call it peace, call it what you want.

The best time for Israel to find that is now when their military and economic strength is so much greater than that of their neighbors. It isn't going to get any better for Israel.

The problem is that it might just get better for the Palestinians if they can wait long enough and especially if the US gets tired of propping up Israel.

So Israel should start looking for the conditions that can lead to a durable peace and that is going to involve compromises and especially on the settlements. On the plus side for Israel, if they can offer economic development to the Palestinians and a share in their economic success then they have a serious bargaining chip.
Israel have already tried with compromise, as anyone knowledgeable of the history of the region will know. If there is to be peace, the concessions will have to come from the Palestinian side, not the Israeli side.

The Israelis learned pretty early on that the Palestinian authority/PLO do not want peace.

Any overtures to that effect are merely for diplomatic show, to complement the image of helpless victimisation it wants to present for the international community to fawn over. The mess with the settlements is, essentially, Israel's attempt at soft conquest of a ruthlessly irrational and hostile neighbour after all other options have failed.
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Old 03-08-2017, 02:09 AM
 
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Most people in my country do not really take much of an interest. There are of course a lot of people that are pro Israel and also many that are pro Palestine.

Without the Jews, much of what is Palestine would be barren and arid. But they have created a land out of milk and honey and a lot of Israel is now very green. Google the map of Israel compared to its neighbours.
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:03 AM
 
6,781 posts, read 7,543,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
No matter what you think about it the condition that people are being kept in in Gaza is terrible. And actually does Israel no favors as it puts public opinion in many places against them.
israel does not give a hoot about what any country thinks of them bar the usa and the vast vast vast majority of americans are unconditionally pro israel , the political establishment is 100% unconditionally pro israel
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:05 AM
 
6,781 posts, read 7,543,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I support Israel over Palestine.

The Chinese government officially supports Palestinian causes, but maintains relations with Israel; there is basically no material benefit from an alliance with Palestine, unlike Israel, and ultimately the modern CCP values real benefits over rhetoric.

Most Chinese know next to nothing about the Israel-Palestine conflict, have little interest in it, and very little to sayon the matter. Among those who do, there is basically an even split among people whose mindset can be summed up thus:

"Hm, many people say that Jews control all the banks and money in the West, they always try to steal, and they are not good people. I think they are very mean to the Palestinians. Do you think Adolph Hitler was really a bad man?"

Or

"Hm, I think that the Palestinians are terrorists and always trying to kill the Israelis, so Israel is smart to build a wall to keep them out. Israel is wealthy and strong. This is good."

Neither is a particularly enlightened or nuanced viewpoint, but then, modern and historical China are quite removed from the issue and it doesn't really matter to them.
a single ethnic group dominating a particular field is not in of itself a bad thing , jews absolutely dominate the media and the finance industry in the usa , this provides a lot of power to lobbyists
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Old 03-10-2017, 11:08 AM
 
6,781 posts, read 7,543,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paull805 View Post
Common sense doesn't appear to register with a lot of people of America. You'd think it would be obvious.
american are conditioned to back israel to the point of brainwashing , an americans opinion on the israeli pallestinian conflict is about as useful as wearing a pair of skis while climbing a ladder
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
a single ethnic group dominating a particular field is not in of itself a bad thing , jews absolutely dominate the media and the finance industry in the usa , this provides a lot of power to lobbyists
I believe the Jewish dominance of the finance and media is overblown. Not all Jews are pro Israel. Even one of the richest Americans who is Jewish (George Soros) is really critical of Israel. George Soros has also given million dollars in organisations that took part in the anti Trump protests. So much about the power of lobbyists then

Also the most conservative types of Jews also who are Ultra Orthodox Jews can be very critical of Israel. Even the ones that live in Israel refuse to serve in their military there.

Last edited by other99; 03-10-2017 at 05:10 PM..
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,908 posts, read 22,843,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
I believe the Jewish dominance of the finance and media is overblown. Not all Jews are pro Israel. Even one of the richest Americans who is Jewish (George Soros) is really critical of Israel. George Soros has also given million dollars in organisations that took part in the anti Trump protests. So much about the power of lobbyists then

Also the most conservative types of Jews also who are Ultra Orthodox Jews can be very critical of Israel. Even the ones that live in Israel refuse to serve in their military there.
The Ultra Orthodox Jews are critical of Israel as it was created by Man and not G_d. They are critical of Israel itself for not blindly following the rules they follow set by the Talmud. They refuse to serve in the military (and work) since it blocks their occupation of Study. They live on Israeli entitlements and American donations. They don't want to get their hands dirty so they leave that to Jews who are not them. They don't serve in the military, but expect the military to protect them. When it comes to the West Bank, they are no better than the Arabs who start up fights in the fields. If they had their way, their Arab neighbors would be evicted or killed. The Ultra Orthodox within Israel itself who protest for the current Israel gov't to not exist are the same people who take over neighborhoods and squeeze Arab residents out by any means.
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
The Ultra Orthodox Jews are critical of Israel as it was created by Man and not G_d. They are critical of Israel itself for not blindly following the rules they follow set by the Talmud. They refuse to serve in the military (and work) since it blocks their occupation of Study. They live on Israeli entitlements and American donations. They don't want to get their hands dirty so they leave that to Jews who are not them. They don't serve in the military, but expect the military to protect them. When it comes to the West Bank, they are no better than the Arabs who start up fights in the fields. If they had their way, their Arab neighbors would be evicted or killed. The Ultra Orthodox within Israel itself who protest for the current Israel gov't to not exist are the same people who take over neighborhoods and squeeze Arab residents out by any means.
The Haredi women are much more likely to work then men. Given the higher than average birthrates in Israel with the Haredi, they will become a bigger demographic force in the future. Also the Haredi men now are have compulsory conscription to serve in the IDF. That is in contrast to Finland where religious minorities such as the Jehovia Witnesses are exempt for conscription.

Last edited by other99; 03-10-2017 at 07:24 PM..
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Blue Ridge
20,908 posts, read 22,843,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
The Haredi women are much more likely to work then men. Given the higher than average birthrates in Israel with the Haredi, they will become a bigger demographic force in the future. Also the Haredi men now are have compulsory conscription to serve in the IDF. That is in contrast to Finland where religious minorities such as the Jehovia Witnesses are exempt for conscription.
You're relying on old information. As of last year the UO part of the Israeli coalition gov't grew much larger than before. The requirements for the Haredi to join the IDF were diminished to near nothing (less than 2,000) by changing the law.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cu...g-is-each-2016

High Court to state on haredi army service: You

UO/Haradi women in Israel, as in New York State (Kiryas Joel for example), have no say in gov't affairs. They are slaves within their communities. Don't confuse them with normal Orthodox Jews.

Haredi women in position of
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Old 03-11-2017, 07:28 PM
 
4,454 posts, read 5,521,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
You're relying on old information. As of last year the UO part of the Israeli coalition gov't grew much larger than before. The requirements for the Haredi to join the IDF were diminished to near nothing (less than 2,000) by changing the law.

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-cu...g-is-each-2016

High Court to state on haredi army service: You

UO/Haradi women in Israel, as in New York State (Kiryas Joel for example), have no say in gov't affairs. They are slaves within their communities. Don't confuse them with normal Orthodox Jews.

Haredi women in position of
Well I have seen Haradi here in Australia, and of course they reject a lot of aspects of modern life. It be better off if they prefer that way to become self sufficient and still reject a lot of aspects of modern life, like the Amish groups, or christian sects like the Exclusive Brethren.
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