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London is expensive but there has been a lot of investment, with a lot more planned and the current Mayor has frozen fares for the immediate future.
Crossrail will change things radiically in the next few years, as will the Northern Line Extension currently under construction, whilst London Overground is being extended and there are plans for the extension of the Bakerloo Line, Metropolitan Line and Dockland Light Railway, with Crossrail 2 and HS2 in the offing, whilst Thameslink will be completed in 2018.
The price of paris metro is lower because of various subventions... taxes aren't all disappearing, fortunately else both have huge investments. Hard to compare to Madrid because Madrid metro is a newborn compare to parisian one and even more londonian one!
I don't know NY subway, is it really bad? I mean it can be dirty, OK, but at least cheap and efficient (which is apprently the opposite) ?
The price of paris metro is lower because of various subventions... taxes aren't all disappearing, fortunately else both have huge investments. Hard to compare to Madrid because Madrid metro is a newborn compare to parisian one and even more londonian one!
I don't know NY subway, is it really bad? I mean it can be dirty, OK, but at least cheap and efficient (which is apprently the opposite) ?
NY subway IS that bad. It is not cheap and it is definitely not efficient. It is the worst subway system in developed countries (and some developing countries too).
You don't feel you walk in a public transit system in a rich country. You feel like in a prison cell. You feel back in 1975.
In comparison, the Paris and London metro is like Sofitel (versus comfort Inn).
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The price of paris metro is lower because of various subventions... taxes aren't all disappearing, fortunately else both have huge investments. Hard to compare to Madrid because Madrid metro is a newborn compare to parisian one and even more londonian one!
I don't know NY subway, is it really bad? I mean it can be dirty, OK, but at least cheap and efficient (which is apprently the opposite) ?
In terms of London, it's non-profit making and everything is reinvested in the system, and the congestion charge also is reinvested in public transport. The reason it's so expensive is that it's investing such massive amounts in numerous schemes and new rolling stock.
Paris, is also investing heavily, and both systems will see significant improvement, it's NYC that hasn't really invested or planned as well in terms of increased usage and pressure on an already antiquated system. I know NYC has plans to try and plug some of the gaps through spending on quick fixes, but it needs a cohesive long term spending and improvement policy.
In terms of London, it's non-profit making and everything is reinvested in the system, and the congestion charge also is reinvested in public transport. The reason it's so expensive is that it's investing such massive amounts in numerous schemes and new rolling stock.
Paris, is also investing heavily, and both systems will see significant improvement, it's NYC that hasn't really invested or planned as well in terms of increased usage and pressure on an already antiquated system. I know NYC has plans to try and plug some of the gaps through spending on quick fixes, but it needs a cohesive long term spending and improvement policy.
It's not up to NYC,it's up to the State government. The MTA is not owned by NYC, it's owned by NY State. Big difference. The city is trying to get the State to invest more money into the MTA, but instead Cuomo is spending money on dumb **** like expensive light shows on the new Kosciusko bridge.
I'm not denying that our infrastructure is outdated and needs an upgrade, but we have made drastic improvements from the 70s, 80s, and even just the 90s and early 2000s. A lot of the recent stuff is with Amtrak/NJT in Penn Station (which has been a disaster as long as I can remember), combined with a little bit of media sensationalism.
However, we did get the State to pledge $1 Billion extra into the subway for improvements recently, and we are getting a new Station for LIRR and Amtrak as they abandon the disgusting Penn Station and move across 8th avenue into the old Post office building where an entirely new $1.6 Billion new station will be built, called "Moynihan Station"
NY subway IS that bad. It is not cheap and it is definitely not efficient. It is the worst subway system in developed countries (and some developing countries too).
You don't feel you walk in a public transit system in a rich country. You feel like in a prison cell. You feel back in 1975.
In comparison, the Paris and London metro is like Sofitel (versus comfort Inn).
It's old, dirty, smelly, gritty, grimey, cramped, and very poorly ventilated in the Summer, but I wouldn't call it expensive or inefficient at all, and I live in NYC without a car so I use this system every single day to get everywhere. $120 gets you a monthly unlimited pass regardless of distance. It's also the largest rapid transit system in the world by # of stations and the only one that operates fully 24/7. Not saying it is the best though.
Listen, I'm the first person to complain about the NYC subway as it is FAAAAAR from perfect, but you're out of your mind if you think it's the worst subway system in the developed world. Have you ever been to.... literally any other city in North America? NYC is on a league of its own in North America. You have to compare it to European and Asian cities to find better.
It's old, dirty, smelly, gritty, grimey, cramped, and very poorly ventilated in the Summer, but I wouldn't call it expensive or inefficient at all, and I live in NYC without a car so I use this system every single day to get everywhere. $120 gets you a monthly unlimited pass regardless of distance. It's also the largest rapid transit system in the world by # of stations and the only one that operates fully 24/7. Not saying it is the best though.
Listen, I'm the first person to complain about the NYC subway as it is FAAAAAR from perfect, but you're out of your mind if you think it's the worst subway system in the developed world. Have you ever been to.... literally any other city in North America? NYC is on a league of its own in North America. You have to compare it to European and Asian cities to find better.
Interesting, the 24/7 is indeed a very good point... I wish the metro in Paris could do that too damn.
120$ is expensive tho... but there are less taxes in USA so I guess people manage anyway .
Question is, is it metro per month only or bus/tram' too?
The network is extremely large but in London underground+overground too and in Paris, RER since it's just a double desk metro. I should go to NYC see with my own eyes lol. On google image this brave metro looks fine... but it's google image...
Interesting, the 24/7 is indeed a very good point... I wish the metro in Paris could do that too damn.
120$ is expensive tho... but there are less taxes in USA so I guess people manage anyway .
Question is, is it metro per month only or bus/tram' too?
The network is extremely large but in London underground+overground too and in Paris, RER since it's just a double desk metro. I should go to NYC see with my own eyes lol. On google image this brave metro looks fine... but it's google image...
There are no trams (within the borders of NYC proper, though some in neighboring New Jersey), but there are buses and the monthly pass does include local buses within NYC proper. However, that unlimited card does not include express bus services, commuter rail, or the airtrain light rail to JFK airport.
What's the most greatly missing part in NYC compared to many of these systems is the ability of commuter rail lines to take people to multiple parts of the core and double as rapid transit within the city. Essentially, what NYC is missing is the RER system in its entirety. While there are express routes for NYC's subway, they aren't quite the same thing. Instead, NYC has commuter rail services to the city center run by three different transportation agencies all of which stop at one of two terminals within the core (Manhattan) and only one each.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-26-2017 at 07:53 PM..
It's old, dirty, smelly, gritty, grimey, cramped, and very poorly ventilated in the Summer, but I wouldn't call it expensive or inefficient at all, and I live in NYC without a car so I use this system every single day to get everywhere. $120 gets you a monthly unlimited pass regardless of distance. It's also the largest rapid transit system in the world by # of stations and the only one that operates fully 24/7. Not saying it is the best though.
Listen, I'm the first person to complain about the NYC subway as it is FAAAAAR from perfect, but you're out of your mind if you think it's the worst subway system in the developed world. Have you ever been to.... literally any other city in North America? NYC is on a league of its own in North America. You have to compare it to European and Asian cities to find better.
It is not far from perfect. It is far from acceptable.
Not all, but I have taken subways in many NA cities: LA, Chicago, Boston, DC, Atlanta, SF, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, and yes, the NYC experience is definitely the worst. Of course NA has an extremely low bar when it comes to public transit so there are some competitors.
I am not talking about access or convenience of course, but the experience itself. It just lowers your quality of life dramatically.
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It's not up to NYC,it's up to the State government. The MTA is not owned by NYC, it's owned by NY State. Big difference. The city is trying to get the State to invest more money into the MTA, but instead Cuomo is spending money on dumb **** like expensive light shows on the new Kosciusko bridge.
I'm not denying that our infrastructure is outdated and needs an upgrade, but we have made drastic improvements from the 70s, 80s, and even just the 90s and early 2000s. A lot of the recent stuff is with Amtrak/NJT in Penn Station (which has been a disaster as long as I can remember), combined with a little bit of media sensationalism.
However, we did get the State to pledge $1 Billion extra into the subway for improvements recently, and we are getting a new Station for LIRR and Amtrak as they abandon the disgusting Penn Station and move across 8th avenue into the old Post office building where an entirely new $1.6 Billion new station will be built, called "Moynihan Station"
Crossail is costing £16 billion, Crossrail 2 wil cost over £30 Billion, whilst London Overground, Thameslink and refurbishing the London Underground lines and buying new trains and rolling stock has cost even more, whilst Grand Paris Express costs over £20 Billion.
There has also been signigicanbt investment in rail, with King Cross and St Pancras International redevelopments in London, the current £800 million redevelopment of Waterloo Station and the plans for Euston, Old Oak and HS2 which will cost over £50 Billion. Then you have the subway extension to the Northern Line and Bakerloo Lines extension as well as the London Overground extension and Docklands Light Railway extension, with the future proposed Metropolitan Line extension, South London Tram extension and a new Heathrow to Waterloo rail link. Whilst HS1 involved 37 miles of tunnels through east London and Kent, and cost £6 Billion, and London s also investing billions in new bridges and tunnels, as well as the bus network, and a large percentage of the sysyem is now 24 hour non-stop.
In all London has possibly invested or is going to invest the best part of £100 Billion (not including HS2), and Paris isn't far behind.
Whilst $1 Billion may be welcome news, it is not even in the same league as what other major global cities are spending.
It is not far from perfect. It is far from acceptable.
Not all, but I have taken subways in many NA cities: LA, Chicago, Boston, DC, Atlanta, SF, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, and yes, the NYC experience is definitely the worst. Of course NA has an extremely low bar when it comes to public transit so there are some competitors.
I am not talking about access or convenience of course, but the experience itself. It just lowers your quality of life dramatically.
In that case, you're generally thinking about fairly cosmetic issues rather than utility. That's fine, but I generally put a lot more emphasis on general usability things like frequency, speed, connectivity and extensiveness.
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else both have huge investments. Hard to compare to Madrid because Madrid metro is a newborn compare to parisian one and even more londonian one!
I wish the metro in Paris could do that too damn.
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