Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I like NYC and love visiting. Have been there several times and never found anything to dislike. I've not heard a French person criticize Paris, nor an Italian criticize Rome or any other native person of a country bad-mouth the capital.
I think in Italy it's cooler to criticize Napoli from what I heard. There is a stereotype that Napoli is dangerous and full of mafiosi, they even spread rumors that it's the most dangerous city in Western Europe which sounds like bs to me
In Latin America, at least according to my wife, Montreal seems to come up first. I'm from Germany, and I think Montreal is at least as well-known in that part of Europe as Toronto.
Toronto is fairly well known, but I feel there's confusion about exactly what or where it is. Everyone knows it's a big, prosperous North American city, but I'm not sure most people get that's it's Canada's hegemonic city, even though it truly is.
I agree that Toronto and Montreal are fairly equal in much of the world. Though Toronto is very ascedant and leaving Montreal behind increasingly. Montreal has some legacy prestige from being number one for so long, it had a big Expo and the Olympics, it has F1 and it shares ATP and WTA tennis with Toronto, plus it is French speaking which makes it stand out. Which is why many assume it's almost the same size as Toronto whereas Toronto is now way bigger.
Also Montreal is not on the radar in China and India where people think of Toronto and Vancouver.
OTOH it will always be the first Canadian city in francophone countries.
Just like we think of Geneva before the much larger Zurich.
I agree that Toronto and Montreal are fairly equal in much of the world. Though Toronto is very ascedant and leaving Montreal behind increasingly. Montreal has some legacy prestige from being number one for so long, it had a big Expo and the Olympics, it has F1 and it shares ATP and WTA tennis with Toronto, plus it is French speaking which makes it stand out. Which is why many assume it's almost the same size as Toronto whereas Toronto is now way bigger.
Agreed, I'm not arguing that Montreal is as big/important as Toronto these days. Montreal isn't even close in 2016.
But, globally, I think Montreal is at least as prominent. Perhaps this shouldn't be true, but it is. It's probably because 1. Montreal used to be bigger/more important and it takes time for reputation to catch up to reality and 2. Toronto, while big, booming and prosperous, doesn't have any obvious calling card or iconic thing.
Agreed, I'm not arguing that Montreal is as big/important as Toronto these days. Montreal isn't even close in 2016.
But, globally, I think Montreal is at least as prominent. Perhaps this shouldn't be true, but it is. It's probably because 1. Montreal used to be bigger/more important and it takes time for reputation to catch up to reality and 2. Toronto, while big, booming and prosperous, doesn't have any obvious calling card or iconic thing.
There is actually some debate in Canada as to whether Toronto could already have Montreal "beat" in terms of obvious calling cards and iconic things.
I agree that Toronto and Montreal are fairly equal in much of the world. Though Toronto is very ascedant and leaving Montreal behind increasingly. Montreal has some legacy prestige from being number one for so long, it had a big Expo and the Olympics, it has F1 and it shares ATP and WTA tennis with Toronto, plus it is French speaking which makes it stand out. Which is why many assume it's almost the same size as Toronto whereas Toronto is now way bigger.
Also Montreal is not on the radar in China and India where people think of Toronto and Vancouver.
OTOH it will always be the first Canadian city in francophone countries.
Just like we think of Geneva before the much larger Zurich.
Actually I think this sums up the perception of Toronto and Montreal around the world very very well as do your other posts in here - other than the civic immaturity part but i'll let that go lol.. Overall i'd actually put them on an even keel in terms of perception of prominence (YVR isn't really far behind imo) though these things are extremely difficult if not impossible to measure until it becomes so skewed in favour of one primate type city as in the case of the London's, Cairo's and Paris' of the world.
It'll probably be another decade or two before Toronto is probably more widely recognized as the most important city in the country even though it has been for a few decades now.
If there is any objective measure to this - in terms of visitation, than in would appear Toronto would have it over Montreal as there are far more international visitors to its airport and far more international connectivity. Admittedly, this doesn't tell the whole story but it does beat a - well my wife said to me in country x Montreal is more well known type of stuff.
We jokingly call Toronto " the centre of the universe " , well those who don't live in Toronto do.
Hate is a strong word, I'd say it's more an expression of resentment, that Toronto gets most of the attention. I feel for the other poster who is assumed to be from Paris because he is from France.
It's similar for a lot of Canadians being asked about Toronto when out of the country.
Even the most die-hard critic of Toronto, usually enjoys visiting the place.
Most people who say that simply don't understand Toronto.. That can be said about a lot of cities but Toronto is still the new 'big' city on the block if you will in a country that is not that prominent worldwide to begin with. Usually the rationale behind why people resent the place is just absolutely pathetic, especially within Canada. I'm sorry there is no other way to put it. Note i'm not saying people have to love it but if you are going to resent it at least visit the place a few times to say that and no - a business trip to the DT core for a few days does not constitute understanding a city. Neither does conflating the minority economic/business elite with the majority of its residents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natnasci
A common fallacy is that since I'm from Canada I must speak French.
SAME!! Note to world - Canada is more English than it is French - 28 million to only 8 million lol...
Anybody who's familiar with Canada knows that Toronto is the heavyweight of that country.
Montreal is "special" because it is Francophone, but it is nearly of the same wealth and scale as Toronto.
But Montreal isn't "nearly of the same wealth and scale as Toronto". Toronto is much bigger and richer. It's the undisputed heavyweight of Canada, and completely dominates these days.
Canada isn't a Germany-type country where there is no clear alpha city. It isn't even a U.S.-type country where there's a clear alpha but a number of other very important cities.
That's why it's somewhat notable that Montreal is at least as well known as Toronto outside Canada.
The average person could visualise New York, London or even a relatively medium-sized city like Sydney without difficulty, but I think it would be a different story for Toronto, Vancouver or Calgary.
Last edited by Fish & Chips; 05-16-2016 at 08:46 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
