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Yes, but then THEY are blamed solely for 'not integrating.'
I always remember my grandfather talking about signs he used to see, even at the Post Office- 'No dogs or Mexicans allowed.' But, he was a gracious man filled with dignity- he said he just would try not to take it personal and just saw it as 'it is what it is.'
I find it very interesting that people want to ignore history and how that has affected the settlement and integration patterns of these groups. Yes, thinks have changed, but those systems were in place for more than 100 years.
Exactly and just because a system comes to an end officially, doesn't mean the effects of it simply disappear. It takes many generations for that when there is still unofficial discrimination taking place. People in those neighborhoods have zip codes that banks avoid lending to even to this day. In San Diego if your zip code has two consecutive 1's in it, it can really hurt you.
Mexicans were treated similar to African-Americans (segregated schools, hung, killed, etc...) so saying White Catholics were treated 'worse' is exaggerating a bit, don't you think? actually, the FIRST ever segregation case taken to court was by Mexican-Americans in 1930s. Also, it is obvious that they are seen as perpetual foreigners by many.
Now, this does not negate the fact there has been discrimination and racism towards White groups in the US- Catholics, Irish and Germans were mistreated. There was alot of racism towards Italians also.
I don't think it's healthy to obsess about the past, and carrying grudges does no one good. But, I also don't like this current trend of not taking into account history and the effects systemic racism have had on groups in the US.
In the end, I feel that if you have a hard time making friends, seeing positives in US culture, and feel like a 'foreigner in you own land' when you walk into an ethnic store (I feel euphoria doing so, in fact, one of my favorite markets caters to Iraquis), that is more a reflection of YOU and your insecurities, not that the US is going to hell in a hand basket and diversity doesn't work.
It's like the phrase-seeing the glass half empty or half full. You can choose your perspective: 'they opened an ethnic store in my neighborhood (upset)' vs 'oh, how nice that that old crumbling building is an entrepreneurial opportunity for someone trying to live the American dream.' I choose the positive perspective.
Forgive me @Gentoo. I see your point now about "speaking for people", although I still keep my stance on how modern-day blacks use slavery and segregation as a scapegoat to avoid the persistent cultural issues within the black community that hinders us today. The community has lots of internal problems of its own, and I'm quite tired of seeing other blacks give blame to "whitey" for past social injustices when blacks themselves are unwilling to fix their own communities from within.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf
In the end, I feel that if you have a hard time making friends, seeing positives in US culture, and feel like a 'foreigner in you own land' when you walk into an ethnic store (I feel euphoria doing so, in fact, one of my favorite markets caters to Iraquis), that is more a reflection of YOU and your insecurities, not that the US is going to hell in a hand basket and diversity doesn't work.
It's like the phrase-seeing the glass half empty or half full. You can choose your perspective: 'they opened an ethnic store in my neighborhood (upset)' vs 'oh, how nice that that old crumbling building is an entrepreneurial opportunity for someone trying to live the American dream.' I choose the positive perspective.
This couldn't be more transparent. Would've been more effective to just quote me, no?
The irony is that you yourself are projecting your own thoughts onto my experiences. You seem to be mistaking projection vs actual treatment. What people think about you is unknown, but how people treat you is seen and heard. I don't know, and quite honestly don't care much what others think of me since it's something I can't anticipate nor change on my own dime. But I am very aware of how I'm treated. I don't take kindly in being ignored and brushed off by staffers, gawked at like an animal at a zoo, and avoided while walking the aisles like I'm a walking plague. I've had people at farmer's markets who will walk to the other side when crossing my paths and go back in order to avoid walking next to me as well.
While I wouldn't say "going to hell", I do think cultural relativism is very much a problem. I think western culture is digressing since it does constantly pander to the principle, meaning that it twists its way of life for incoming foreigners rather than the other way around...which is a problem. It's equivalent to you taking in a stranger and the stranger expecting you to bend backwards to cater to all his wants and desires. If you don't see the problem with that well, I don't know what else to say to ya.
And as far as hyper-diversity goes, I think the video highlights that it largely is a failure. What studies do you have that show otherwise?
I hope that example isn't based off of what I said. I love going to the farmer's market (or ethnic food shop, but it's called the former where I live). Absolutely nothing is going to stop me from getting my kasugai candy.
You seem to be perpetuating this fallacy of positive thinking to where anyone that doesn't see the debating subject in the "up side" of things has the problem. Logically and morally speaking, the positive side is not inherently better. Keeping your head in the sand to the problems doesn't get rid of of them, and nor does it make everything peachy keen either, my dear.
White and East Asians dying off is part of living in an advanced country with desk jobs, they don't feel the need to have more kids. Same with many middle eastern countries, Iran and Turkey. Even India's rate is rapidly approaching 2.1. It's not genocide, no one is telling people not to have kids or to go kidless they themselves are choosing that. Immigration isn't causing people to not have kids they themselves are simply not having white babies. The black rate currently is at 1.8-1.9 and he dares of all major immigrant Countries are currently around 2.1. Even the Indians coming here are relatively wealthy and have low birth rates. If their was a real takeover they would be open borders and millions would be arriving every year from Africa while in reality less than 100,000 people come from Africa. This isn't genocide, the white numbers are still high the interracial marriage rate is still low. White Genocide is as real as the Nuggets chances at an NBA title.
Forgive me @Gentoo. I see your point now about "speaking for people", although I still keep my stance on how modern-day blacks use slavery and segregation as a scapegoat to avoid the persistent cultural issues within the black community that hinders us today. The community has lots of internal problems of its own, and I'm quite tired of seeing other blacks give blame to "whitey" for past social injustices when blacks themselves are unwilling to fix their own communities from within.
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Ok, I too misunderstood you I guess and I agree with this completely. It isn't always what happened in the past and some of us do use that as a crutch.
Genocide is when an outside group comes and wipes out a less powerful group, like what Turkey did to 1 million Armenians. Low fertility rates are a choice, no one is forcing White people and East Asians to have so few children. It's not like Obama has opened the borders and is forcing White women to get abortions. White people could start having more children tomorrow and the issue would go away. If we don't choose that path that's our fault.
The reality is no one knows how things will turn out. East Asian is willing to maintain ethnic homogeneity by having population loss with no immigration, the West is becoming diverse to have a growing population that isn't homogeneous. It tend to think the USA and Canada will fare better than Europe because we are immigrant nations and used to assimilating people.
No I think it genocide by white people. I think, and have heard many crazy far left liberals say white people suck, and they hate white people. They think white people are well I guess "not smart" enough to work alone and they need different races because they come up with ideas white people cant come up with. I think these white people think white people are inferior to everyone else, and mass immigration from 3rd world countries is the only way to help us. If they really were worried about population they could encourage people to have more kids. Instead of giving 20k per refugee, per year we could be giving that money to encourage bigger families. Tv ads, news paper ads, press conference, etc, to spread awareness. And have money left over to subsidize bigger houses, child supplies, or even money per kid for a few years. There is an ultimate goal to de-whitenize all major white nations. I have no idea why tho.
Immigrants won't "de white use" the U.S, the only thing that can do that is increase of interracial marriage. Birth rates are low across all boards so immigrants arent outgrowing white people but they are declining slower the only thing keeping immigrant population even growing is immigration itself. Also Japan and Russia have both tried increasing the birth rate and Russia has been mildly successful. Their isn't A liberal agenda, it is just something that comes along with being a developed country, more women get rights and the number of housewives decrease in general leading to lower birth rates since more women choose not to have babies or choose to work. Of course you can manage both but even with paid leave etcetera, a woman needs to be with her babies almost constantly for the first three years of their life. This helps cause declining birth rates because more women are simply working more, for longer hours than before and the American housewife in general is a thing of the past.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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I know many White people who have few or no children and it's not because anyone made them feel guilty. Just as many are far right as moderate or far left. It's a combination of social dysfunction and viewing children as a financial liability. Second, it's only been about 10 years that people were even aware that mass demographic change was coming if fertility rates didn't increase. It's now at the forefront of people's consciousness mainly because Obama was elected twice despite loosing the White non Hispanic vote by 20%. If there was no race based voting patterns I don't think it would still be a major issue.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,476,450 times
Reputation: 12187
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf
Yes, but then THEY are blamed solely for 'not integrating.'
I always remember my grandfather talking about signs he used to see, even at the Post Office- 'No dogs or Mexicans allowed.' But, he was a gracious man filled with dignity- he said he just would try not to take it personal and just saw it as 'it is what it is.'
I find it very interesting that people want to ignore history and how that has affected the settlement and integration patterns of these groups. Yes, thinks have changed, but those systems were in place for more than 100 years.
I didn't portray my thoughts clear enough. I wasn't saying that it's good that Whites whose ancestors were treated bad have forgotten but rather that maybe people would have different attitudes towards today's immigrants if they knew how their people were treated.
I know many White people who have few or no children and it's not because anyone made them feel guilty. Just as many are far right as moderate or far left. It's a combination of social dysfunction and viewing children as a financial liability. Second, it's only been about 10 years that people were even aware that mass demographic change was coming if fertility rates didn't increase. It's now at the forefront of people's consciousness mainly because Obama was elected twice despite loosing the White non Hispanic vote by 20%. If there was no race based voting patterns I don't think it would still be a major issue.
Is it far left liberals that into the white guilt, and thinks white people are bad? Or it just the left in general?
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