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Old 06-10-2016, 12:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I've never been but I imagine that Vienna is a wonderful city, I would like to know why it was preferred over New York though? It must 'have' something New York lacks?
Vienna has a grand, former empire feel that isn't present in any other major city I can think of outside of Paris. Lots of very formal, sometimes pompous, historic architecture. It was the very rich seat of a major empire.

As to preferences, I doubt most people would compare NYC to Vienna. They're totally different places not sharing much, outside of the fact that they're prosperous major Western cities.
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Old 06-10-2016, 12:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by brave new world View Post
80's band ultravox wrote a song about vienna but never wrote one about new york, so perhaps that's what's lacking.

although this means nothing to me.
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Old 06-10-2016, 12:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kyogul View Post
You know I find it odd that native NYC residents always talk about how the city is the greatest in the world and "if you can make it here then you can make it anywhere", yet they always compare NYC to other cities (which is a big sign of insecurities about the place you live in, kind of like how an insecure girlfriend will question her boyfriend "are you cheating on me?") and whine like a bunch of babies when they move to other cities because they aren't as "interesting". That toughened persona seems to fade away when they leave their nest, huh.

Anyway London may be underwhelming, but I find NYC to be overwhelming. Which isn't any better than a place being underwhelming.
Have you visited London Kyogul? If not, you should come and make your own mind up
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Old 06-10-2016, 02:57 PM
 
Location: United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by pbobcat View Post
Have you visited London Kyogul? If not, you should come and make your own mind up
Preferably after Fall time, if he dislikes 'overwhelming' environments.
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbobcat View Post
Have you visited London Kyogul? If not, you should come and make your own mind up
I was referring to the OP calling London underwhelming, hence why I said "may be". I have not visited London so I have no opinion of it. I was simply making a point that I personally found NYC to be overwhelming, as well as the flip side of the scenario that OP painted (NYC being overwhelming compared to London). My point was that something being overwhelming isn't any better than being underwhelming.
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Old 06-11-2016, 01:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kyogul View Post
I was referring to the OP calling London underwhelming, hence why I said "may be". I have not visited London so I have no opinion of it. I was simply making a point that I personally found NYC to be overwhelming, as well as the flip side of the scenario that OP painted (NYC being overwhelming compared to London). My point was that something being overwhelming isn't any better than being underwhelming.
Yeah I know, I got your point, but I was just wondering
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Old 06-11-2016, 02:27 AM
 
Location: United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyogul View Post
I was referring to the OP calling London underwhelming, hence why I said "may be". I have not visited London so I have no opinion of it. I was simply making a point that I personally found NYC to be overwhelming, as well as the flip side of the scenario that OP painted (NYC being overwhelming compared to London). My point was that something being overwhelming isn't any better than being underwhelming.
The objection that some have to London is that it's too clean and orderly to be stimulating. The actual issue, I think, relates to one's perception of intangibles. London's sense of power (for lack of better terminology) is in the intangible realm, in a more visionary or inspirational territory, whereas New York's equivalent is more in your face. As pointed out elsewhere in this forum:

"[New York's] energy is more of a "get down and dirty" street vibe and physicality, giving the city its characteristic buzz, driven by the culture of ambition and drive among its blue collar workers. In London the ambition and drive is in the white collar sector, and its power projects transcendentally, not physically."*

Those intangibles are very difficult to define in London's case, some likening it to a kind of sharp-edged refinement and transcendence, or sophistication, but it goes much deeper than that.

Many are perceptive of it, some are not, for reasons that are not fully clear - it seems to relate to your world view. But if it is on your radar of urban experience, it makes New York's sheer physicality a bit staid and prosaic in comparison. That's the reason why I believe there is a lot of discrepancy on which city people prefer out of the two.

Last edited by CTDominion; 06-11-2016 at 03:17 AM..
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Old 06-11-2016, 10:28 AM
 
63 posts, read 61,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTDominion View Post
The objection that some have to London is that it's too clean and orderly to be stimulating. The actual issue, I think, relates to one's perception of intangibles. London's sense of power (for lack of better terminology) is in the intangible realm, in a more visionary or inspirational territory, whereas New York's equivalent is more in your face. As pointed out elsewhere in this forum:

"[New York's] energy is more of a "get down and dirty" street vibe and physicality, giving the city its characteristic buzz, driven by the culture of ambition and drive among its blue collar workers. In London the ambition and drive is in the white collar sector, and its power projects transcendentally, not physically."*

Those intangibles are very difficult to define in London's case, some likening it to a kind of sharp-edged refinement and transcendence, or sophistication, but it goes much deeper than that.

Many are perceptive of it, some are not, for reasons that are not fully clear - it seems to relate to your world view. But if it is on your radar of urban experience, it makes New York's sheer physicality a bit staid and prosaic in comparison. That's the reason why I believe there is a lot of discrepancy on which city people prefer out of the two.
Cleanliness and organisation is a turn off now? Who would've known. I'm not fond of messy areas so perhaps London is my cure to finally liking a mega city.

NYC is very blunt and in your face, and I think that's to make up for the lack of personality in the city. The city's personality is very erratic due to the diversity of the population and doesn't know what it wants to be. But the area seems to foster attitudes in the locals to be brash and abrasive, almost to make up for the lack of a stable personality. It's reminiscent to insecure children trying hard to act tough in order to project a particular persona in order to impress the people around them. I'm from the Southern region of the US and while we emphasise "southern hospitality" here, the area's not short of its crabby people. But I have a problem with people being perverse simply because "that's how the locals act here." It's like the people there strive to act like dicks simply because they have the ability to.

I do have a cousin who interned in London for some months. She absolutely loved it and said she would love to live there one day. She married a Nigerian whose father lives in London now so maybe she'll have the opportunity to one day...
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Old 06-11-2016, 11:21 PM
FBF
 
601 posts, read 927,074 times
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Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Why 'hell holes' exactly? That might be a term I would use for cities in Syria (perhaps) but I am struggling to think what could be so 'hellish' about New York or London? What did Vienna offer that New York didn't?
Well, I was not mistaken to be a Middle Eastern or Pakistani frequently in Paris and Vienna compared to both New York and London (my parents come from Latin America). Nothing wrong with being either of those two ethnicities, but in those cities: it is code red for being "Muslim" and you have people everywhere keeping their eyes on you and following you (New York was worse with a group of five paranoid people following me at the street and saying I was Muslim due to my ambiguous , maybe slight Mediterranean appearance, physical appearance. Despite the fact that is a religion, not a race! And my family and I do not practice that religion!

My flight from Milan to London was all British staff except one North American flight attendant (judging based on his accent) and nearly all of them were disturbed when I used the front toilet on the plane despite other people using it before me and I was seated near the front. The co-pilot even had to come out to inspect if anything was put in there and suddenly: the front toilet was not in use anymore for the remainder of the flight.....

My other Latin American friends told me they had similar assumptions on them when visiting those areas because we do not look "Amerindian" enough (stereotype that U.S. And maybe the rest of the anglosphere have of All Latin Americans).

So yeah, I prefer the pastry shops of Vienna and les grandes boulevards de Paris whenever I go on holiday in Europe, despite them not being perfect either, they were bearable and they do not try to argue with me about my ethnicity.


That was my experience in both cities. Take it if you well *shrugs*

Last edited by FBF; 06-12-2016 at 12:05 AM..
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Old 06-12-2016, 12:51 PM
 
Location: United Kingdom
969 posts, read 821,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyogul View Post
Cleanliness and organisation is a turn off now? Who would've known. I'm not fond of messy areas so perhaps London is my cure to finally liking a mega city.

NYC is very blunt and in your face, and I think that's to make up for the lack of personality in the city. The city's personality is very erratic due to the diversity of the population and doesn't know what it wants to be. But the area seems to foster attitudes in the locals to be brash and abrasive, almost to make up for the lack of a stable personality. It's reminiscent to insecure children trying hard to act tough in order to project a particular persona in order to impress the people around them. I'm from the Southern region of the US and while we emphasise "southern hospitality" here, the area's not short of its crabby people. But I have a problem with people being perverse simply because "that's how the locals act here." It's like the people there strive to act like dicks simply because they have the ability to.

I do have a cousin who interned in London for some months. She absolutely loved it and said she would love to live there one day. She married a Nigerian whose father lives in London now so maybe she'll have the opportunity to one day...
In my experience, typically millennial hipster types. The more left-leaning, the stronger the effect.

The exact words they use are 'sterile' or 'sanitized'. Conversely they would look at a graffiti-ridden ghetto or a third world-looking cesspit with awe and wonder. Presumably this is culture and character in their mindset.
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