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I said pros : free museums (objective fact), diverse (which many cities are, it is not just London), historical (fact).
THOSE SOUND LIKE FACTS MATE, DONT THEY?
I said cons: Very expensive (which it is, I am not a rich person, I cannot afford expensive rents, prohibitively high tube prices, and so on), bad weather (it's quite often gloomy and then it drizzles for days), tacky tourist attractions (which they do have, and a lot in fact)
So explain to me how is it that I am not stating facts?
I gave my subjective opinion of why I don't like London by stating a few Objective facts!
Your nonsense about the weather is NOT a fact, its stereotypical bollox, as somebody has pointed out the weather is now worse than Paris (in many ways its better), now if you want to post 'facts' I suggest you post 'facts' and not rubbish.
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Originally Posted by NOLA101
That's because, as you just admitted, you're ignorant of history.
You had no idea that London was a relatively young major city, and thought it was more comparable to a Rome or Istanbul than to a New York, hence your complete confusion.
You also seem generally ignorant about the world, as there are many civilizations in the Americas that are much older and more notable than their equivalents in Europe. The accomplishments of the Incas, or Aztecs or Mayans, are generally a lot more notable than what was going on in, say, Scandinavia, or Ireland, or really most of Northern Europe at that time.
Mediterranean Europe, yes, has thousands of years of civilization. But not much was going on in, say Norway, until recent centuries. Even Christianity came very late to Scandinavia and the Baltics, as those areas were "off the map".
London was one of the largest cities in Western Europe by the time of the Tudors (1485 - 1603), Henry VIII and Elizabeth I put the fear of God in to half of Europe with their navies, at the same time the Royal Exchange was set up, as were companies such as the East India Company and London became a major financial and trading centre. The Coffee Houses of London were where the stockbrokers met and the nations dominance at sea also reflected London's importance as a centre for trade and a major port. It was during this time that London's population exploded and the city became a major trading centre and port, indeed by the start of the 17th century London had overtaken Paris in terms of population, whilst being a port city gave London a major advantage in terms of sea trade. It is this sea trade that led to Empire and the establishment of financial institutions that paved the way for the industrial revolution.
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Originally Posted by easthome
Your nonsense about the weather is NOT a fact, its stereotypical bollox, as somebody has pointed out the weather is now worse than Paris (in many ways its better), now if you want to post 'facts' I suggest you post 'facts' and not rubbish.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that London and Rome were founded 'about the same time' loooooool! New York is a wonderful city but it can't do anything about its lack of history - and so what! Do you actually believe that London has no history either!! That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard!!!!
I actually see his point, as I recall a Chinese man making the same point about Northern Europeans to a friend of mine, remarking that there was no comparison between thousands of years of Chinese history and the relatively recent rise of Northern European civilisations on the world stage.
Fine, but I view Rome in the same category as Venice, it was once a major city of great relevance on the world stage, but it is no longer. A nice town whose greatness is very much in the past and has done little or nothing to remain relevant in modernity. London is a very interesting outlier, it is no longer the heart of a massive empire, but has still managed to retain its status as a popular world city. New York by contrast is the financial heart of a massive continental nation / empire, so it should be what it is. The fact that London holds it's own against that city is nothing short of a miracle..
For now London is still culturally vibrant, economically powerful and globally influencial. Paris and Rome by contrast are not. Heck I know that it irks continental Europeans that London is the financial capital of Europe, till this day it makes me chuckle that more Euros are traded in London than anywhere else...
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^^^
I totally agree, and as well as London's ever important position in relation to Finance, Law, Advertising and numerous other industries from Medical Research and Ediucation through to Tech Industries through to Retail, Leisure and Tourism. London has even seen it's position as a city of power and influence increase.
Even more traditional industries such as the Docks have seen a rapid growth and the Thames once again becoming a Major Port, with the opening of London Gateway, a £1.5 Billion state of the art new port facility and the expansion of Tilbury Docks with a further 152 Acres of Land having been purchased.
London was one of the largest cities in Western Europe by the time of the Tudors (1485 - 1603), Henry VIII and Elizabeth I put the fear of God in to half of Europe with their navies, at the same time the Royal Exchange was set up, as were companies such as the East India Company and London became a major financial and trading centre.
Right, which was 2000 years after these other cities were already well-established. That's exactly my point.
It's fine to say "NYC has too little history", but the fact is that London, in historical terms is much closer to NYC in terms of historical timeline, than the great cities of antiquity. So it's entirely hypocritical to say "NYC has no history" and then extol London for its history.
London wasn't the most important city in Europe until relatively recently. Paris was three times the size of London in the Middle Ages. And even Paris is a young city compared to those on the Mediterranean.
London didn't become the largest city in Europe until the mid-1700's, and didn't become the biggest economy in Europe until the 1800's. Paris was the most important city on the planet for about 500 years, then London probably surpassed it around 1800, then NYC probably surpassed London in the 1920's, or, at the latest, around WW2. NYC is basically only 100 years behind London in terms of arrival as an alpha city, while London is nearly 2000 years behind Rome in terms of arrival as an alpha.
Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Damascus, Alexandria, those are the cities with the greatest historical importance. The land now comprising the UK had only 10% of Gaul's population in antiquity. And the land now comprising Italy was more populated still. Northern Europe was the lightly settled frontier of civilization. There was very little happening in Europe north of the Alps.
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Originally Posted by NOLA101
Right, which was 2000 years after these other cities were already well-established. That's exactly my point.
It's fine to say "NYC has too little history", but the fact is that London, in historical terms is much closer to NYC in terms of historical timeline, than the great cities of antiquity. So it's entirely hypocritical to say "NYC has no history" and then extol London for its history.
London wasn't the most important city in Europe until relatively recently. Paris was three times the size of London in the Middle Ages. And even Paris is a young city compared to those on the Mediterranean.
London didn't become the largest city in Europe until the mid-1700's, and didn't become the biggest economy in Europe until the 1800's. Paris was the most important city on the planet for about 500 years, then London probably surpassed it around 1800, then NYC probably surpassed London in the 1920's, or, at the latest, around WW2. NYC is basically only 100 years behind London in terms of arrival as an alpha city, while London is nearly 2000 years behind Rome in terms of arrival as an alpha.
Rome, Athens, Istanbul, Damascus, Alexandria, those are the cities with the greatest historical importance. The land now comprising the UK had only 10% of Gaul's population in antiquity. And the land now comprising Italy was more populated still. Northern Europe was the lightly settled frontier of civilization. There was very little happening in Europe north of the Alps.
London was an important city in Roman times, in the Tudor period London became an important trading hub with ships and cargos from accross the world and by the Sixteenth Century London developed as a major global trading centre. Whilst London is also a city which has maintained it's place in the world to this day.
As for history London has a lot more history than NYC indeed Columbus didn't discover America until Tudor times and London overtook it's main rival Paris in terms of population in 1700.
To state that London doesn't have much history or that it wasn't an important city is unbelievable. The City has been a major global trading centre since Tudor Times and you just need look at the Livery Companies and Companies of Merchant Adventurers founded to explore and trade at the time:
1555 - Russia Company
1581 - Turkey Company
1583 - Venice Company
1600 - East India Company
1609 - Virginia Company
1670 - Hudson's Bay Company
London was a leading city in terms of global trade and unlike Paris was vast port city, and London has maintained it's position as a global trading centre since Tudor Times and developed in to what is now deemed an Alpha City.
As already stated the Thames is still a major and indeed growing port.
I think the date when a city became an alpha city is being conflated with when the city was founded. London dates back to the Roman period and possibly earlier, so it definately has more history than NYC. To pretend otherwise would be silly.
Rome rose to prominence thousands of years ago, but again likewise declined in importance a long time ago..
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Originally Posted by nograviti
I think the date when a city became an alpha city is being conflated with when the city was founded. London dates back to the Roman period and possibly earlier, so it definately has more history than NYC. To pretend otherwise would be silly.
Rome rose to prominence thousands of years ago, but again likewise declined in importance a long time ago..
Some London based Companies from the time - indeed the first major multinational companies. The East India Company became so powerful it commanded fleets of ships and had an army.
London only averages 1,500 hours of sunshine a year. The forecast for the next week in London looks extremely gloomy.
Rochester NY averages 2,300 hours of sunshine.
Rain in most of the US =/= gloom. We have more sunshowers and heavy rain that rolls in, pours, clears up and turns sunny again.
Last edited by joeyg2014; 05-30-2016 at 09:25 AM..
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