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Old 06-16-2016, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Beautiful British Columbia 🇨🇦
526 posts, read 449,976 times
Reputation: 943

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First and foremost, I would like to apologize if this post comes off as rude or offensive. If you like the US, then that's great for you, but it's not necessarily everyone's cup of tea.

I'm a Pakistani-American college student hoping to apply to med school next year. I'm a Muslim, and I'm liberal both socially and economically. My goal in life is to do as much good as I can. So I want to leave the US because of all the cruel things it does around the world. Sadly, it seems as though all 1st-world countries bully the rest of the world to a certain extent (whether directly or indirectly), but the US especially so, even if you factor in its large population.

And even domestically, I don't like what the US is doing compared to other developed countries. Between its educational system, gun culture, violent crime, excessive nationalism/blindly believing that we're always #1, socioeconomic immobility, and viewing healthcare as a privilege (this is a big one since I plan on being a doctor), sometimes I feel as though the US goes against many of the things I stand for.

Please don't try to convince me that my liberal views are wrong (I don't want to turn this into a political debate) or that I can change the US (to be frank, Bernie Sanders was our big chance to change, and we blew it).

My plan is to finish my education, and move to a place (NOT in America) where doctors are in especially high demand and highly compensated. And of course the country I move to should be more progressive than the US. I will live a simple life, work as much as I can, maybe save some money in case of an emergency, and spend the rest on sponsoring children in third-world countries. This is why I want to stay in a first-world country; the money will go further in the third world.

Now I just need to figure out where to go. Nordic countries seem better (more environmentally friendly, better education, more cooperative, bigger safety net to help the poor/needy) than anglo countries. But they also seem less multicultural/harder to immigrate to, especially since I don't speak the languages and I'm a nonwhite Muslim. Besides, I'm not sure how well I'd be paid.

Right now, I've been looking into northern Canada, and apparently doctors are desperately needed (so I'd be especially helpful) and are very well-compensated there (so even though the cost of living is high, I'd still have plenty of money to donate). I'm happy to work in the middle of nowhere, having been raised in a rural area. I'd just have to get used to the cold!

If anyone else has any thoughts or advice, please share! Thank you in advance and sorry for the long post!
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Old 06-16-2016, 11:52 PM
 
7 posts, read 10,140 times
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Like you, I'm also planning to leave the US. The only difference is that I'm socially conservative but I'm still economically left.

Canada is a good option. The rich are taxed more heavily and they have a much better social safety net than the US. It is also a multicultural society. English is the main language and French is limited to 1 or 2 provinces if I recall correctly. As a non-white muslim, you will feel a more at home there than you would in a very racially homogeneous European country.

The United Kingdom is another place you should look at. No language barrier, very multicultural, more left wing than the US, and a more politically engaged electorate. The down side is that the UK does cooperate with the US on a lot of foreign military ventures. How much of a turn off would that be to you?

Australia - Much less populated but still more further to the left than the US. Again, no language barrier.

France - It has a strong welfare system, racially diverse, liberal culture. It sometimes gets tied up militarily with its former colonies, but the French generally like to stay out of wars whenever possible. You will have to learn another language.

Germany and Scandanavia - They have strong welfare systems but aren't as racially diverse. You will feel like more of an outsider, especially if you are not within a major city like Berlin or Stockholm.

I know for Canada, you have to live there for 4 years before you can apply for citizenship. I'm not sure what the citizenship requirements are for the other places, but I hope this helps.
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:08 AM
 
25,040 posts, read 27,799,698 times
Reputation: 11789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Socialist View Post
Like you, I'm also planning to leave the US. The only difference is that I'm socially conservative but I'm still economically left.

Canada is a good option. The rich are taxed more heavily and they have a much better social safety net than the US. It is also a multicultural society. English is the main language and French is limited to 1 or 2 provinces if I recall correctly. As a non-white muslim, you will feel a more at home there than you would in a very racially homogeneous European country.

The United Kingdom is another place you should look at. No language barrier, very multicultural, more left wing than the US, and a more politically engaged electorate. The down side is that the UK does cooperate with the US on a lot of foreign military ventures. How much of a turn off would that be to you?

Australia - Much less populated but still more further to the left than the US. Again, no language barrier.

France - It has a strong welfare system, racially diverse, liberal culture. It sometimes gets tied up militarily with its former colonies, but the French generally like to stay out of wars whenever possible. You will have to learn another language.

Germany and Scandanavia - They have strong welfare systems but aren't as racially diverse. You will feel like more of an outsider, especially if you are not within a major city like Berlin or Stockholm.

I know for Canada, you have to live there for 4 years before you can apply for citizenship. I'm not sure what the citizenship requirements are for the other places, but I hope this helps.
I know for Germany you have to wait about 5 years or more. But, Germany does not allow dual citizenship, you must turn in all your other passports if you want the German passport
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:17 AM
 
1,972 posts, read 1,266,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I know for Germany you have to wait about 5 years or more. But, Germany does not allow dual citizenship, you must turn in all your other passports if you want the German passport
I am dual citizen German / US-American.
But I was so by birth. So perhaps that is different if you apply for german citizenship......
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:23 AM
 
25,040 posts, read 27,799,698 times
Reputation: 11789
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustermannBB View Post
I am dual citizen German / US-American.
But I was so by birth. So perhaps that is different if you apply for german citizenship......
Quote:
  1. If the other citizenship is the one of another EU country or of Switzerland. Non-EU- and non-Swiss citizens must usually renounce their old citizenship if they want to become German citizens. There are exceptions made for citizens of countries that do not allow their citizens to renounce their citizenship (e.g., Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Costa Rica. P.S.: In case of Brazil it is possible to renounce your citizenship through a requirement made in the Brazilian consulate if you already have acquired another citizenship voluntarily, but it is not required to do so; the following jus-soli countries allow renunciation only if the citizenship was acquired involuntarily by birth there to non-citizen parents: Dominican Republic, Ecuador, Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Uruguay), or if the renunciation process is too difficult, humiliating or expensive (e.g., Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Cuba, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Nigeria, Syria, Thailand, Tunisia), or, rarely, in individual cases if the renunciation of the old citizenship means enormous disadvantages for the concerned person.
  2. If a German citizen acquires a non-EU or non-Swiss citizenship with the permission ("Beibehaltungsgenehmigung") of the German Government (e.g., existing relative ties or property in Germany or in the other country or if the occupation abroad requires domestic citizenship for execution). The voluntary acquisition of a non-EU or non-Swiss citizenship without permission usually means the automatic loss of the German citizenship (but see Point 4). The permission is not necessary if the other citizenship is of another EU country or of Switzerland or if dual citizenship was obtained at birth.
  3. If the person is a refugee and holds a 1951 travel document during naturalization.
  4. If a child born to German parents acquires another citizenship at birth (e.g., based on place of birth [birth in jus-soli countries mostly of the Americas], or descent from one parent [one German parent and one foreign parent]).
  5. Children born on or after 1 January 2000 to non-German parents acquire German citizenship at birth if at least one parent has a permanent residence permit (and had this status for at least three years) and the parent was residing in Germany for at least eight years. The children must have lived in Germany for at least eight years or attended school for six years until their 21st birthday. Non-EU- and non-Swiss-citizen parents born and grown up abroad usually cannot have dual citizenship themselves (but see Point 1).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German...al_citizenship
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:27 AM
 
1,972 posts, read 1,266,613 times
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That solves that! :-)
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:55 AM
 
Location: Beautiful British Columbia 🇨🇦
526 posts, read 449,976 times
Reputation: 943
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I know for Germany you have to wait about 5 years or more. But, Germany does not allow dual citizenship, you must turn in all your other passports if you want the German passport
That's perfectly fine with me; if I successfully move out of the US, I will renounce my citizenship anyway (to avoid expat taxes). My concerns about moving to a European country are language barriers (although German or French wouldn't be too hard to learn compared to a Nordic language), difficulty immigrating as a non-EU citizen, fear of not being accepted (most European countries don't seem to be quite as multicultural as North America), and the fact that it seems like more doctors aren't DESPERATELY needed over there.

Whereas (please correct me if I'm wrong) northern Canada is quite remote and more isolated, and many of the Indigenous people live in third-world conditions on reserves. Most doctors would not want to live somewhere so cold, poor, and isolated, and would prefer to live in a city instead. On top of that, many doctors ditch Canada for America. It makes me wonder if there are regions in other first-world countries with the same problem. Maybe parts of Australia (away from the shore) or New Zealand?
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Old 06-17-2016, 01:29 AM
 
25,040 posts, read 27,799,698 times
Reputation: 11789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcyon18 View Post
That's perfectly fine with me; if I successfully move out of the US, I will renounce my citizenship anyway (to avoid expat taxes). My concerns about moving to a European country are language barriers (although German or French wouldn't be too hard to learn compared to a Nordic language), difficulty immigrating as a non-EU citizen, fear of not being accepted (most European countries don't seem to be quite as multicultural as North America), and the fact that it seems like more doctors aren't DESPERATELY needed over there.

Whereas (please correct me if I'm wrong) northern Canada is quite remote and more isolated, and many of the Indigenous people live in third-world conditions on reserves. Most doctors would not want to live somewhere so cold, poor, and isolated, and would prefer to live in a city instead. On top of that, many doctors ditch Canada for America. It makes me wonder if there are regions in other first-world countries with the same problem. Maybe parts of Australia (away from the shore) or New Zealand?
Keep in mind renouncing your citizenship doesn't mean you're not liable for tax. You're still liable for a number of years even if you renounce citizenship.

French is not easy to learn as you think, and the Nordic languages are easier. English, German, and Swedish/Norwegian/Danish belong to the same language family as English; French is only similar to Spanish and other Latin languages, not English.

But you are right, medical personnel aren't as needed in the EU as in the US, but the UK does routinely sponsor visas for GPs, and many foreign GPs in the UK came from India and Pakistan. I believe the same is true for Canada. If you're worried about racism, then Australia is not the best choice. Aussies have a racist reputation, and aren't really ashamed about it. As far as integration of minorities goes, the UK does the best job in all of Europe. I look kinda Mexican to Americans or Indian/Pakistani to the British, and I have gotten an instance of racial abuse my way in England, but it was isolated and they take racism in the workplace very seriously in the UK

I hate to say it, but you inadvertently answered your own question. Because no doctor would probably want to move to northern Canada means there would be more demand and less supply for doctors. Northern Canada would probably be the easiest route to take until you get Canadian citizenship.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
29,775 posts, read 18,629,952 times
Reputation: 25768
Look in the Middle East OP...UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar. All Muslim controlled and high income countries.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Beautiful British Columbia 🇨🇦
526 posts, read 449,976 times
Reputation: 943
Sorry, I should have also mentioned that (although I'm rusty) I learned Spanish in high school, which should make learning, say, French, a bit easier. I heard Nordic languages are hard to learn; I guess that could be wrong though.

And I also should have mentioned that I don't want to go to a Muslim-majority country; my parents like them and (contrary to what the media says) they're nice to visit, but the language barrier would be an issue, they're too conservative for a lefty like me, and acquiring citizenship would be difficult (Saudi Arabia doesn't give citizenship to anyone- there are reasons for this that I don't feel like diving into).
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