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According to stats, Venezuela, Columbia, El Salvador and a few other Latin American countries are very violent with a high homicide rate. Don't you think that murder rates would be much lower if they had a strict capital punishment system? Take a look at Eastern Asian countries. Like those Latin American countries, they're not very rich, but they also aren't that violent, considering that they have the death penalty implemented there. Wouldn't the strict death penalty law "cower" the would-be criminals and thus would refrain them from perpetrating such acts?
That kind of goes against logic. Canada has a low violent homicide rate, and we have no death penalty...
You are leaving aside basic cultural differences between East Asian countries and those of Latin America, and I think these probably play a major role in attitudes toward crime and violence.
Second, you assume that death penalty = lower violent crime, but do we know that is a fact?
And, further, what are the cultural attitudes toward risk-taking, crime, etc., etc., which might mitigate fear of a death penalty?
Perhaps cultural differences do play a role (and that isn't the point here), but then again America is a western nation and they have the death penalty.
You're right. We don't know if the death penalty would lower (or raise) murder rates. But I think it's okay to debate about it, no? I made this thread to discuss this; Can the fear of death penalty keep you from killing someone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa2011
That kind of goes against logic. Canada has a low violent homicide rate, and we have no death penalty...
Conversely, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Libya, Algeria, China and Indonesia have a relatively low homicide rate and they have a capital punishment system. The system is more harsher in China, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia, and, interestingly, they have the lowest murder rates out of the other mentioned countries. Now does the strictness of capital punishment play a role at lowering murder rates? I don't know. That's why I made this thread.
Last edited by Ethereal; 09-01-2016 at 08:15 PM..
Reason: Added reply to Ottawa2011
East Asian countries are less violent than Latin American countries because they have a lot less guns, not because of the death penalty.
No. Their culture makes them less violent. Asians in the US, with access to guns, have a low gun crime rate. But strangely, they top in the number of mass shootings per capita.
On the other end of the spectrum, blacks make up the disproportionately amount of gun crime in the US and the UK; despite being almost opposite in gun laws, blacks still manage to top the list in gun crime in these two countries.
Re-establishing the death penalty would lead to more homicides and more violence. A society that thinks that killing people is a good way to solve problems will lower the brink for their citizens to kill other people.
Violence occurs not because of a lack of death penalty but rather a combination of social factors.
Inequality is the most powerful causation of social violence.
(which is why sociologists in Western Europe are worried with their Islamic communities, as many are growing into urban ghettos, excluded from mainstream societies because of social exclusion and discrimination, and the youngsters are starting to show anti-social behaviors prone to violence.)
Notice how unequal societies with a history of segregation of certain segments of their societies are often the ones who tend to show more violence in the present.
USA
Brazil
Colombia
Venezuela
South Africa
Central America and Mexico are special cases, but that is because of the drug trade and the rampant poverty present especially in Central America where drug trade and poverty creates a lethal combination. El Salvador Honduras etc.
From a sociological aspect, violence is also a very gradual experience, it starts to rise throughout time as a result of certain social conflicts and then hits an all time climax and eventually starts to decline very slowly, however it often takes generations for it to decline.
Colombia is an example, 2016 Colombia is a country with a plummeting level of violence, but it's been going on since 2002 that the level of violence has been falling but very slowly.
Re-establishing the death penalty would lead to more homicides and more violence. A society that thinks that killing people is a good way to solve problems will lower the brink for their citizens to kill other people.
Quite frankly I don't think the law matters one bit either way. Those who commit violent crimes are doing so because of their social-economic and cultural realities. Whether guns are lawful or outlawed does not really matter because criminals will always be able to obtain guns, and good people will never touch a gun, even if it's right in front of them.
The US will continue to have a huge murder rate due to guns because of its population/demographic. And China, with 5 times more people, will continue use to have far less murder by gun rate because they are Chinese. If the ethnic Chinese make up the majority of the US pollution, the US murder rate will fall dramatically, no matter the gun policy.
Quite frankly I don't think the law matters one bit either way. Those who commit violent crimes are doing so because of their social-economic and cultural realities. Whether guns are lawful or outlawed does not really matter because criminals will always be able to obtain guns, and good people will never touch a gun, even if it's right in front of them.
The US will continue to have a huge murder rate due to guns because of its population/demographic. And China, with 5 times more people, will continue use to have far less murder by gun rate because they are Chinese. If the ethnic Chinese make up the majority of the US pollution, the US murder rate will fall dramatically, no matter the gun policy.
Societies of exclusion breed violence. You're right.
Violence occurs not because of a lack of death penalty but rather a combination of social factors.
Inequality is the most powerful causation of social violence.
(which is why sociologists in Western Europe are worried with their Islamic communities, as many are growing into urban ghettos, excluded from mainstream societies because of social exclusion and discrimination, and the youngsters are starting to show anti-social behaviors prone to violence.)
Notice how unequal societies with a history of segregation of certain segments of their societies are often the ones who tend to show more violence in the present.
Agreed, and there are many other social factors. Religiosity is one of them. Religion is less of an oppresive and omnipresent thing in Latin America compared to, say, the Middle East, or even parts of South East Asia. Latin American societies are more liberal, secular. Democracy is stronger (see Democracy Index, for example) and citizens have more law garanties in Latin America; add that to a justice system that works poorly in practice, with limited resources, corruption, etc, and, as a result, people who commit crimes have much more of a chance of going unpunished, or just not going to jail (because of law benefits). Asian countries seem to be, on general terms, more authoritarian.
Also, what pennyone and other forum members said. Compared to Asian states/nations, Latin American nations are young, more feeble; most countries are still working on building proper nation-states with a more consolidated identity, there's still too much gaps between different social groups that can be trackable to Colonial times, too much inequalities.
Perhaps cultural differences do play a role (and that isn't the point here), but then again America is a western nation and they have the death penalty.
You're right. We don't know if the death penalty would lower (or raise) murder rates. But I think it's okay to debate about it, no? I made this thread to discuss this; Can the fear of death penalty keep you from killing someone?
Conversely, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Libya, Algeria, China and Indonesia have a relatively low homicide rate and they have a capital punishment system. The system is more harsher in China, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia, and, interestingly, they have the lowest murder rates out of the other mentioned countries. Now does the strictness of capital punishment play a role at lowering murder rates? I don't know. That's why I made this thread.
Cultural differences play a role, sure. Ancestor worship is huge in East Asia, and the thought that the one you murder might haunt you forever probably plays a part, and it bears dishonour on your family forever too.
And if you're facing certain death if getting caught, you don't have anything to lose. Why not kill more people? That's what the nazis did. When it was certain Germany would lose, the nazis could've dismantle the death camps, destroy all evidence and play down everything, and they had over a year to do so. But no, they speeded up the operation! They thought "we are going to die, so fast, let's get rid of so many Jews still when we can".
The level of murders in Libya is unknown. It wasn't long when that country was in a civil war. And remember, tribal justice is very well alive, so people just 'disappear'. Those aren't in official stats. Whatever the culture, it hasn't stopped ISIS, the most violent and brutal terrorist group ever this world has seen.
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