Africa! What is wrong with Africa? (neighborhood, medical, rating)

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by El Rhino

Yes, this is absolutely ludicrous. I agree. All of those European & their descendent's achievements don't really mean much. In the grand scheme of things, what's playing golf on the Moon, really?




I don't know about this one. Is there any evidence to suggest that the smartest of Africans were captured and put into slavery? You would think that the least clever ones would be the ones who were caught. From what I've read it seems like becoming a slave was more of an issue of bad luck than captors specifically seeking the smart ones. Who knows, maybe the smart ones were slow?

People fought, villages fell and people were carted off; that is how slavery worked. Man power or the lack there of has never indicated intelligence or the lack there of. There are many slave narratives of literate Africans, and they discuss their intellectual background in them, many were written in their native languages and some were even written in English. You also have to remember there were tons of kids who were taken, and add to that, the potential of every man and woman to produce educated offspring that would contribute to society etc. etc.

There was a book I read some years back from a Senegalese woman that quoted a lot of those narratives.

[Senator Palpatein]

To Mississippienne:

I don't care what some book titled Guns, Germs & Steel said. That guy is just trying to get RICH pushing an agenda -- an anti Western Civ agenda. Obviously because there's a bunch of white people who loath themselves and their family. That's a big money business right there.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to control the continent of Africa with even thousands of Europeans wielding single shot rifles - against half a BILLION AFRICANS. You're acting as if Europeans had some kind of advanced alien technology. Remember the Africans had spears and all sorts of weapons plus they had the numbers to easily overrun Europeans who may have been patroling a town.

The US has the most advanced weaponry in the world and we can barely control Iraq and Afghanistan. The early Europeans had single shot rifles, not M-16s or Ak-47's!!!

Europeans had primitive guns and they did NOT have any concrete or steel castles to hide in. Their positions could have easily been overrun as they were outnumbered by at least 1,000 to 1.

[Senator Palpatein]

To Wild Style:

Do you really buy into the idea that because of colonialism all of the African's were under the jackboot of a few thousand Europeans with single shot rifles and no decent fortification or adequate supplies to hold off half a billion pissed off people?!


The africans who were taken as slaves were on the west coast. The Europeans were reluctantly to even enter much of Africa for fear of disease or being overwhelmed by the millions of angry Africans.

Nothing ... absolutely ... nothing like the black plague happened to Africa. 1/3 of Africa's population has never been wiped out due to a horrific disease such as the black plague. And yet Europe's dollar today is more vaulable than America's.

The diseases and AID's issues are a joke compared to the black plague that hit Europe. And by the way, Europe has gone through many a terrible disease that struck that continent in addition to the black plague.

[Senator Palpatein]

By the way ...

Someone said Africa's problems are because there's so many African ethnicities and tongues and that they are constantly warring and clashing.

Well I guess that's proof positive that MULTI-CULTURALISM doesn't work.

[Wild Style]

senator

Whoa, where to begin. You don't know much about african history do you? I think you are basing your statement off of emotions and conjecture, am I right? The Europeans had rulers who made "treaties" with them. When ever these rulers woke up and tried to fight off the Europeans, it was bloody war and they were crushed. You should do more research on the subject and again that doesn't mean five minutes of googling or going to wikipedia :S

One of my favorite heroes is Ahmadu Bamba. He is a good example of a religious leader who tried to talk out against colonial rule and he was expelled. Also try reading up on the Hut tax Rebellion. These are just two examples but there are many such stories to read about out there.

Originally Posted by Senator Palpatein

To Wild Style:

Do you really buy into the idea that because of colonialism all of the African's were under the jackboot of a few thousand Europeans with single shot rifles and no decent fortification or adequate supplies to hold off half a billion pissed off people?!


The africans who were taken as slaves were on the west coast. The Europeans were reluctantly to even enter much of Africa for fear of disease or being overwhelmed by the millions of angry Africans.

Nothing ... absolutely ... nothing like the black plague happened to Africa. 1/3 of Africa's population has never been wiped out due to a horrific disease such as the black plague. And yet Europe's dollar today is more vaulable than America's.

The diseases and AID's issues are a joke compared to the black plague that hit Europe. And by the way, Europe has gone through many a terrible disease that struck that continent in addition to the black plague.

unlike yourself my family is from W. Africa, I know the history. I am not going to debate with you on the subject. One of us is basing their argument on what their "gut tells them" and the other basing their argument on fact. When you have emotions coming up against facts, you will never come to any real conclusion or mutual understanding. So for you, I say, read up on the stuff I mentioned and I hope you even read further. Take some months and get acquainted with the subject matter....or not.

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by Senator Palpatein

To Mississippienne:

It's IMPOSSIBLE to control the continent of Africa with even thousands of Europeans wielding single shot rifles - against half a BILLION AFRICANS. You're acting as if Europeans had some kind of advanced alien technology. Remember the Africans had spears and all sorts of weapons plus they had the numbers to easily overrun Europeans who may have been patroling a town.
.

Senator,
I think I do agree with most of your position. IMHO one has only to look at Rhodesia for an example of what happens when a Tribal based goverment is put in control.
I would submit however that technology does have a benefit. Examine please in particuler the battle at Rorkes Drift. A very small contigent of well trained,well armed (martini/henry breech loaders)British Regulars held and defeated a vastly superior force of Zulu tribesmen. Also please examine the history of the Boer war. Again superior British technology coupled with the willingness of the Britsh to exterminate the Boer led to the Brit victory. Incedently the Boer war saw the first use of the Consentration camp as we know it today.......

Rorke's Drift - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Category:Boer War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Rillifane]

What's wrong with Africa is that Bantus where ten or twenty thousand years behind Europeans and Arabs in everything from technology to cultural and political devopment when they were confronted with the first major European incursions. Twenty thousand years isn't the tiniest part of one click of the evolutionary clock but for the Bantu is was a fatal deficiency.

Bantu culture was all but frozen in place and the primitive tribal culture never had the chance to develop. What may have been quite workable and useful for stone age pastoralist and early agricultural society is useless in a world dominated by nation states, technolgy and money.

[Senator Palpatein]

Ok ... so this begs the question then ...

Are the British and French smarter and is their culture superior to that of the Africans.

Wait ... I thought we were all equal?!

But the responses I keep hearing is that the Europeans were more advanced, blah, blah, blah.

So you're telling me the Europeans are so vastly superior, that they can control territory that's 3 times the size of Western Europe with a few thousand men and a few thousand rifles? What!?

[my54ford]

Originally Posted by Senator Palpatein

Ok ... so this begs the question then ...

Are the British and French smarter and is their culture superior to that of the Africans.

Wait ... I thought we were all equal?!

But the responses I keep hearing is that the Europeans were more advanced, blah, blah, blah.

So you're telling me the Europeans are so vastly superior, that they can control territory that's 3 times the size of Western Europe with a few thousand men and a few thousand rifles? What!?

History shows thats the case... Holland,England France,Spain,Belguim, Germany.... all at one time or another ruled vast empires with a technoligicaly superior, numerically inferior force. These empires almost always consisted of countries that were divided by tribalism. The US is another example. A technicaly advanced European force was able to subjugate the native tribes......

[El Rhino]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

People fought, villages fell and people were carted off; that is how slavery worked. Man power or the lack there of has never indicated intelligence or the lack there of. There are many slave narratives of literate Africans, and they discuss their intellectual background in them, many were written in their native languages and some were even written in English. You also have to remember there were tons of kids who were taken, and add to that, the potential of every man and woman to produce educated offspring that would contribute to society etc. etc.

There was a book I read some years back from a Senegalese woman that quoted a lot of those narratives.

I doubt there were many narratives written, especially ones in English and ones that have stood lasted long enough for someone to document. Sub-Sahara Africa was pretty short on written langauges, you know. I wouldn't doubt that a lot of the narratives out there are "historical dramatizations".

But let's say that Western Africa really did experience brain drain because all their pointy heads were put into slavery. What happened to other parts of Africa, like Congo, Rwanda, Zimbabwe and so-on who were not affected by the slave trade?