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One thing worth noting about the United States and the Spanish language is that the Spanish language could very well go the way of German and Italian in a few generations if current trends hold up. Mass immigration from Mexico is over, and recent studies have shown that current Spanish speakers are learning English at a faster rate than previous German and Italian immigrants learned English.
Too many people focus on the 'new immigrants' and forget about the cultural roots of the Southwest and the economic border ties between the two countries.
Fundamentally this is quite true, although of course like most aboriginal groups in the new world the Maori have undergone a high level of acculturation and assimilation that has seriously affected the viability of their culture and lifestyle.
The language isn't in great shape (despite a lot of effort), but the culture isn't going anywhere -it's contemporary and evolving. Not sure what is meant by lifestyle.
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Originally Posted by Bakery Hill
Geography has a huge influence here, as New Zealand is actually a comparatively densely populated country. So Maori have been influenced much more than a lot of Aboriginal groups in more remote locations in Australia.
Not really. Out of the 6 countries on the poll, NZ is only the 4th most densely populated. Out of 248 countries, it is the 202nd most densely populated.
It will decline a good deal for sure. I'm not sure if it will ever completely die out. There are still French speakers in Louisiana; generations after immigration from France stopped. Another difference is that when German and Italians were immigrating here, there was a huge push to assimilate and abandon the old languages. Many Germans even anlicized their names; ("Meüller" became "Miller" for example). They also didn't have TV, newspapers and radio available to them at the same level. Ok, there wasn't any TV really to speak of but you get the idea. They could not get by using German or Italian only in certain areas the way Spanish speakers can today.
I would honestly suggest looking up the history of the Midwest. Large swathes of the region received massive amounts of immigrants, especially Germans, a century or so ago. A study conducted by the University of Wisconsin even found that at the late 19th century/early 20th century 1/3 of the state's population was native German speakers, and that those speakers were so insulated within their own community that about 35% of them still only spoke German by the second generation. The same study couldn't find any Latino communities today in the US with the same stats, and a Pew study found that 92% of second generation Latinos can speak English "very well." By the third generation, less than half of Latinos have the ability to speak Spanish.
While there was a push for assimilation with earlier immigrants, they most certainly did still have their own local newspapers in their native languages. I don't know you think they didn't. Some even still exist today. What they lacked was a national media in the same vein that Latinos have across the US. Still, the US of the early 20th century was not as interconnected as it is today, and a government push for assimilation (especially for Germans thanks to the World Wars) has been replaced by the inability to succeed in America without the English language in the majority of the country. Chicago, for example, still has the second largest foreign born Mexican population in the United States, but good luck landing a white collar job in downtown if you only have the ability to speak Spanish.
Do I think Spanish will completely die out? No, I don't. Hell, German and Italian never completely died out, but they both did become far less common, and there's currently no reason to believe that Spanish won't either. Government sponsored assimilation has been replaced with culturally pushed assimilation.
Too many people focus on the 'new immigrants' and forget about the cultural roots of the Southwest and the economic border ties between the two countries.
I think people need to live out here to fully grasp what we're saying. There are two mistakes I see repeated when we discuss this; the first is they use the past to try to predict what will happen, not understanding that the German, Italian etc. immigrants were in a completely different situation. The second thing they seem to do is base their assessment on visits or short stays in other parts of the country. Spanish is seen and heard all over the US but it is not a part of the fabric as you said in those places as it is here. I bet most don't know that the current state of New Mexico was given that name almost 300 years BEFORE there was a country called Mexico. The Spanish language in this part of the world predates both the US and Mexico.
Too many people focus on the 'new immigrants' and forget about the cultural roots of the Southwest and the economic border ties between the two countries.
I don't think it'll completely die out, especially since many languages from immigrants a century or so ago still haven't, but it most likely will become far less common. 69% of third generation Latinos are English dominant, and only 47% of third generation Latinos can speak Spanish. IV. Language Use among Latinos | Pew Research Center
I would honestly suggest looking up the history of the Midwest. Large swathes of the region received massive amounts of immigrants, especially Germans, a century or so ago. A study conducted by the University of Wisconsin even found that at the late 19th century/early 20th century 1/3 of the state's population was native German speakers, and that those speakers were so insulated within their own community that about 35% of them still only spoke German by the second generation. The same study couldn't find any Latino communities today in the US with the same stats, and a Pew study found that 92% of second generation Latinos can speak English "very well." By the third generation, less than half of Latinos have the ability to speak Spanish.
While there was a push for assimilation with earlier immigrants, they most certainly did still have their own local newspapers in their native languages. I don't know you think they didn't. Some even still exist today. What they lacked was a national media in the same vein that Latinos have across the US. Still, the US of the early 20th century was not as interconnected as it is today, and a government push for assimilation (especially for Germans thanks to the World Wars) has been replaced by the inability to succeed in America without the English language in the majority of the country. Chicago, for example, still has the second largest foreign born Mexican population in the United States, but good luck landing a white collar job in downtown if you only have the ability to speak Spanish.
Do I think Spanish will completely die out? No, I don't. Hell, German and Italian never completely died out, but they both did become far less common, and there's currently no reason to believe that Spanish won't either. Government sponsored assimilation has been replaced with culturally pushed assimilation.
Check Rosa's and my posts for why this is likely not the case.
Check Rosa's and my posts for why this is likely not the case.
I have, I don't fully agree. Current studies don't agree either. Parts of the border might remain a special case, but contrary to what Fox News likes to tell the country, Latinos aren't bucking the assimilation trend, and they're learning English rapidly and losing the Spanish language also rather rapidly.
Canada definitely likes to think that it is, though I am not sure it is entirely the case. Could be, though.
All of these countries are focussed on different parts of the world, so it's hard to really compare. The Irish and Brits are extremely Euro-centric in outlook and thinking, the US and Canada are far more in tune with the Americas, and Aussies and Kiwis are way more focussed on and interested in the South Pacific and South East Asia.
Europeans often say that Australia is "remote" or "far away", which usually generates a response of "really?" or "from where?" because there are a lot of Asian and Pacific nations close by.
I have, I don't fully agree. Current studies don't agree either. Parts of the border might remain a special case, but contrary to what Fox News likes to tell the country, Latinos aren't bucking the assimilation trend, and they're learning English rapidly and losing the Spanish language also rather rapidly.
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