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Old 03-11-2017, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
16,416 posts, read 23,387,492 times
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Questions like this are ridiculous.
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:44 PM
 
3,308 posts, read 2,159,987 times
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Originally Posted by karstic View Post
I have Mexican family that went there before the Civil War in Spain, in 1930 or such. They made a fortune with brandy and I know they hang in their clubs and colonias and only marry other spanish. Other family members went to Veracruz, they became entirely Mexican and they married Mexican women. I lost any notion of them as they don't have properties in our hometown, or they have not returned in decades.

Yes, Mexican have their own chorizo, and eat many Spanish products and also produice olive oil. In fact, every Spanish dish or "platillo" as they say in Mexico is part of Mexican gastronomy.
Yes, I have quite a few Mexican-American friends with Spanish grandparents. I met them. I don't know why people assume Spanish culture and ties to Mexico are tucked away in a far off past. They're not.

A prominent local chef here in Tijuana is the son of Spanish immigrants, it's not an anomaly to be the grandchild or even child of Spaniards in Mexico:

https://chefsroll.com/chef-profile?crurl=chefguerrero
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:45 PM
 
1,476 posts, read 496,834 times
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Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
In New Mexico, most Hispanics don't come from Mexico, they come from the same local areas here in the U.S. that were colonized by Spain.

Many of the Mexican immigrants in New Mexico come from the nearest Mexican states which also have a high representation of descendants of Spanish colonists. They certainly don't look like Michoacanos or Oaxacans and other southern Mexicans with strong indigenous looks.

In fact, most of the indigenous looking Hispanics in New Mexico are not from Mexico either. They are the descendants of local Hispanicised Native Americans called genizaros. The Spanish colonists converted them to Catholicism and taught them Spanish, eroding most of their indigenous traditions and served as a servile underclass. To this day, New Mexican Hispanics with European looks tend to be more educated and economically successful than the descendants of the genizaros.

As far as Puerto Ricans qualifying as Hispanic, they certainly are, as the term Hispanic denotes a particular cultural background, not citizenship.


Many Spanish in NM come from the "repoblamiento of Taos" during 1770 or so. I read in National Geographic that they shoot at Americans, Mexicans and Indians, they certainly look Spanish. Genizaros are descendants of servants and maids that have a native anerican origin but are Hispanic.
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:49 PM
 
1,476 posts, read 496,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
Yes, I have quite a few Mexican-American friends with Spanish grandparents. I met them. I don't know why people assume Spanish culture and ties to Mexico are tucked away in a far off past. They're not.

A prominent local chef here in Tijuana is the son of Spanish immigrants, it's not an anomaly to be the grandchild or even child of Spaniards in Mexico:

https://chefsroll.com/chef-profile?crurl=chefguerrero


Mexico had a VERY LARGE Spanish population until the revolution, when the revolution took place many fled to Spain and Cuba, and I guess that those in Cuba also fled during the revolution. The Spanish population in Mexico was very large, a large percentage as the population of Mexico was low.
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
A middle-class Peruvian from Lima, why not.

Look, I have very few experiences of Southern Americans, but I have a lot of experiences with Spaniards. Though there are many differences, there is a certain type of understanding and agreement I cannot explain. Maybe it's unconcious, but every single time I interact with Spaniards though vast cultural differences it's really easy to find common ground with them. I would say that apart from Scandinavians, Germans and Dutch, the Spaniards are maybe the easiest to get along with. The Mexicans again will call the cops if they see a lone child commuting to school. (True story.)

IDK if I've told this one before, but I was in Barcelona with my ex girlfriend. We visited the same corner store every day to fetch some waters and snacks, and in Finnish culture you usually greet the shop clerk with a hello when you step in. My ex GF stepped in one morning and said a loud "hola". Everyone but the clerk (a Chinese) turned their face and replied with a "hola". In Finland only the clerk would reply to a "moi" and all others would ignore the whole episode.

That was the biggest culture shock we got, and oh did we laugh a lot about it.
What!?
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Old 03-11-2017, 06:12 PM
 
3,793 posts, read 1,399,476 times
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Originally Posted by sheena12 View Post
Coined "by the liberals"? GoodHombre - listen to trump much?
...have a feeling este hombre is going to be enlightened when he goes to Spain.


IMHO Spaniards are more Spaniard than anything else...I think the same of Brits. It's a history thing...
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:55 AM
 
1,476 posts, read 496,834 times
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Originally Posted by Return2FL View Post
I didn't mean to say that only Mexicans live near the border, but that the comment about 90% of Hispanics in the US are Mexican is wrong. Miami has a huge Hispanic population, but I don't ever recall meeting a Mexican down there.


Miami is not representative. C'mon. What is the percentage of Cubans and middle class and blatantly rich Spanish speaking Latin Americans in the US? Two percent?

In Miami, Mexicans living there now are rich and hueritos, and last time I visited nobody knew what a taco was besides that piece of crap they sold at Taco Vivas....The only time I saw Mexicans was in Homestead, they were braceros, very nice and friendly people.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:09 AM
 
1,476 posts, read 496,834 times
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Originally Posted by tangelag View Post
...have a feeling este hombre is going to be enlightened when he goes to Spain.


IMHO Spaniards are more Spaniard than anything else...I think the same of Brits. It's a history thing...


HISPANIC CULTURE, NOT A RACE OR NATIONALITY.
GALLIC CULTURE, ITALIC CULTURE, NOT A RACE OR NATIONALITY

The three sprang from Roman or Latin culture, not a race or nationality.

"Barbarian" or "Germanic" cultures are based on TRIBUM, RACE. They invaded Western Europe as TRIBES, and some remain as TRIBES except in fully romanized countries.

Roma destroyed tribes and "races" and placed people in civites or cities "civilizatio" to transform them into Roman Citizens NOT BASED IN TRIBES, NOT BASED ON RACE AS THE US.

Last edited by karstic; 03-12-2017 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 03-12-2017, 09:41 AM
 
2,510 posts, read 907,436 times
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Originally Posted by karstic View Post
Miami is not representative. C'mon. What is the percentage of Cubans and middle class and blatantly rich Spanish speaking Latin Americans in the US? Two percent?

In Miami, Mexicans living there now are rich and hueritos, and last time I visited nobody knew what a taco was besides that piece of crap they sold at Taco Vivas....The only time I saw Mexicans was in Homestead, they were braceros, very nice and friendly people.
You said that 90% of the Hispanics in the US were Mexican. That number is 64%. Once you move away from the border states, there is very much a mixed bag of Hispanics.

I'm not quite sure where your 2% figure came from.

9.7% of Americans earning over $100K are Hispanic
10.7% of Americans earning between $75 - 100K are Hispanic.
17.9% of Americans earning between $50K - 75K are Hispanic.

They've got some ground to make up before they reach the income of Asians and whites, but they are a very upwardly mobile group in the US.

Your last comment is exactly my point. If 90% of Hispanics in the US were Mexican, you would have been able to find a good taco in Miami. Instead you can find good ropa vieja, bistec palomilla, empenadas, camerones al ajillo and all sorts of other Cuban and South American seafood dishes.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:30 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
13,067 posts, read 14,390,754 times
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Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Interesting post. Do Genizaros still speak Spanish?
NB: Although I use the term Genizaro out of convenience to refer to contemporary people, the term is rarely used outside of historical context and may even carry classist, if not racist, connotations. The term Hispano, not to be confused with 'Hispanic', is still used to describe New Mexicans of European Spanish colonial stock, but is often extended to encompass all Hispanic New Mexicans in contrast with recent (after mid-19th century) Mexican immigrants, many of whom settled the southern half of the state. Thus, Hispano can refer to the Hispanic tradition and culture of northern New Mexico as distinct from the cultural tradition of southern New Mexico with its stronger Mexican influence.


Most rural Hispanic New Mexicans, whether Hispanos or Genizaros, speak Spanish, but all schools in the state teach English, so it is largely a bilingual population. Since English is the language of economics, most Hispanic New Mexicans are more fluent in English by adulthood, while Spanish is still used in domestic situations and by people involved in land based occupations such as agriculture, forestry, etc. There is also a lot of Spanglish (Spanish-English code switching) in these communities.

In cities such as Albuquerque and Santa Fe many, if not most, Hispanics have only a rudimentary skill in Spanish even if they still carry on Spanish traditions. There are exceptions, still.

Overall, I would say that New Mexico's variant of Spanish is far from dead, but it is definitely in endangered status in the urban areas. The increase in popularity of dual-language schools in both rural and urban New Mexico, as well as the increase in interest among Anglo Americans in sending their children to dual-language schools bodes well, however.


Last edited by ABQConvict; 03-12-2017 at 12:48 PM..
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