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Old 07-01-2017, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Østenfor sol og vestenfor måne
17,916 posts, read 24,269,567 times
Reputation: 39032

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bordeaux33 View Post
There is a mish mash of vocabulaire, but even then 80% of words that even an éduqué and articulé English speaker use in a day are of Germanique origine. All that pie chart shows is that English hoards words of forain origine away in its dictionnaire juste to take a few out on a rainy day to sound pompeux (like I do quite often).

Anyway, that a langage is the somme of its vocabulaire is faux.

I put in bold the équivalent words in French.
16 out of 86 is close enough to 80% for a short, random sample, especially for a discussion of an academic subject like language. Academic English uses a far higher percentage of words of French and Latin origin than everyday speech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Doesn't look like 80% on that chart to me, where did you get 80% from?
That chart is a breakdown of words in the 'English Corpus' which is a list of words used in English language publications. It does not consider frequency of usage, A large number of those words are restricted to specialized technical, legal, and medical fields, and over educated people who like to pepper they're speech with 'big' words, not unlike myself. A terrible habit from wasting away for over a decade in academia.

Here is a list of the 500 most commonly used words in the English language. Even a casual look will show you how much of the core vocabulary of English is overwhelmingly West Germanic.

To simplify, here are the most common 100. And consider that a full 1/2 of all printed material in the English language is made up of these 100.

1 the
2 be
3 to
4 of
5 and
6 a
7 in
8 that
9 have
10 I
11 it
12 for
13 not
14 on
15 with
16 he
17 as
18 you
19 do
20 at
21 this
22 but
23 his
24 by
25 from
26 they
27 we
28 say
29 her
30 she
31 or
32 an
33 will
34 my
35 one
36 all
37 would
38 there
39 their
40 what
41 so
42 up
43 out
44 if
45 about
46 who
47 get
48 which
49 go
50 me
51 when
52 make
53 can
54 like
55 time
56 no
57 just
58 him
59 know
60 take
61 people
62 into
63 year
64 your
65 good
66 some
67 could
68 them
69 see
70 other
71 than
72 then
73 now
74 look
75 only
76 come
77 its
78 over
79 think
80 also
81 back
82 after
83 use
84 two
85 how
86 our
87 work
88 first
89 well
90 way
91 even
92 new
93 want
94 because
95 any
96 these
97 give
98 day
99 most
100 us

Last edited by ABQConvict; 07-01-2017 at 03:01 PM..
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Old 07-01-2017, 04:17 PM
 
178 posts, read 183,939 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabio SBA View Post
They aren't mutually intelligible. Portuguese speakers can understand more or less Spanish depending on the variety. The varieties spoken in Colombia and Mexico are the easiest to be understood, while Rioplatense is the hardest. Spanish from Madrid is in between.

On the other way, I notice that native spanish speakers in general don't understand Portuguese at all in the spoken form, unless they studied the language before.
What are you saying?

I'm Argentinian and talk to a Brazilian girl every single day. She speaks in Portuguese while I do it in Spanish.

Also, I can understand Italian pretty well and I've never studied it.

The only one that it's a bit difficult to understand (mostly when written) is French.

You guys should considerate the following language tree to see how close languages are (the size of the leaves indicates how many speakers there are of each one):


Last edited by adrianf91; 07-01-2017 at 04:26 PM..
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Old 07-01-2017, 05:32 PM
 
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
1,741 posts, read 2,519,157 times
Reputation: 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianf91 View Post
What are you saying?

I'm Argentinian and talk to a Brazilian girl every single day. She speaks in Portuguese while I do it in Spanish.

Also, I can understand Italian pretty well and I've never studied it.

The only one that it's a bit difficult to understand (mostly when written) is French.

You guys should considerate the following language tree to see how close languages are (the size of the leaves indicates how many speakers there are of each one):
It's difficult for me to evaluate, because I'm not in your side. And I previously apologise if you feel offended with what I will say, it's not my intention.

All the times when I spoke with a native Spanish speakers who never studied Portuguese before, they never did any efforts to understand me. I had to switch to Spanish for getting understood. I'm afraid that they in fact understood me, but due to some arrogance, or because they think that Portuguese is an "inferior" language - sometimes I heard that Portuguese is a poorly spoken Spanish - they pretend not to understand.

I know that the Spanish-speaking world is very, very huge, covering a lot of countries with distinct cultures and any assumption I will do will be a misconception. I must also add that I have already worked with people from Argentina, Colombia and Chile, and I have no complaints about them. But I have to tell my bad luck with some native Spanish-speaking people.
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Old 07-01-2017, 05:34 PM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,386,575 times
Reputation: 9438
If you are looking at Latin based languages, I would imagine either French and Romanian or Italian and Romanian.
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Old 07-01-2017, 05:49 PM
 
178 posts, read 183,939 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabio SBA View Post
It's difficult for me to evaluate, because I'm not in your side. And I previously apologise if you feel offended with what I will say, it's not my intention.

All the times when I spoke with a native Spanish speakers who never studied Portuguese before, they never did any efforts to understand me. I had to switch to Spanish for getting understood. I'm afraid that they in fact understood me, but due to some arrogance, or because they think that Portuguese is an "inferior" language - sometimes I heard that Portuguese is a poorly spoken Spanish - they pretend not to understand.

I know that the Spanish-speaking world is very, very huge, covering a lot of countries with distinct cultures and any assumption I will do will be a misconception. I must also add that I have already worked with people from Argentina, Colombia and Chile, and I have no complaints about them. But I have to tell my bad luck with some native Spanish-speaking people.
In general Portuguese native speakers understand Spanish better than vice-versa, that's true. So they see no need to speak Portuguese because you guys can already understand Spanish.

Of course that doesn't mean they don't understand Portuguese, instead it only means they (Spanish speakers) don't want to speak Portuguese.

Another thing is that here, English is taught. And sometimes French too (but those are a minority of schools). No Portuguese.

I'm not saying that that it's okay, because for example we're very close to Brazil but that's how it is...

Anyway...
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Old 07-03-2017, 04:46 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,831 posts, read 11,959,989 times
Reputation: 9796
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
16 out of 86 is close enough to 80% for a short, random sample, especially for a discussion of an academic subject like language. Academic English uses a far higher percentage of words of French and Latin origin than everyday speech.



That chart is a breakdown of words in the 'English Corpus' which is a list of words used in English language publications. It does not consider frequency of usage, A large number of those words are restricted to specialized technical, legal, and medical fields, and over educated people who like to pepper they're speech with 'big' words, not unlike myself. A terrible habit from wasting away for over a decade in academia.

Here is a list of the 500 most commonly used words in the English language. Even a casual look will show you how much of the core vocabulary of English is overwhelmingly West Germanic.

To simplify, here are the most common 100. And consider that a full 1/2 of all printed material in the English language is made up of these 100.

1 the
2 be
3 to
4 of
5 and
6 a
7 in
8 that
9 have
10 I
11 it
12 for
13 not
14 on
15 with
16 he
17 as
18 you
19 do
20 at
21 this
22 but
23 his
24 by
25 from
26 they
27 we
28 say
29 her
30 she
31 or
32 an
33 will
34 my
35 one
36 all
37 would
38 there
39 their
40 what
41 so
42 up
43 out
44 if
45 about
46 who
47 get
48 which
49 go
50 me
51 when
52 make
53 can
54 like
55 time
56 no
57 just
58 him
59 know
60 take
61 people
62 into
63 year
64 your
65 good
66 some
67 could
68 them
69 see
70 other
71 than
72 then
73 now
74 look
75 only
76 come
77 its
78 over
79 think
80 also
81 back
82 after
83 use
84 two
85 how
86 our
87 work
88 first
89 well
90 way
91 even
92 new
93 want
94 because
95 any
96 these
97 give
98 day
99 most
100 us


What difference does frequency of use make! The fact is the English language is not 80% Germanic, I will post the pie chart again so you can see.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...art_2D.svg.png


That's not 80%.
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Old 07-03-2017, 08:40 AM
 
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
1,741 posts, read 2,519,157 times
Reputation: 1340
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianf91 View Post
Another thing is that here, English is taught. And sometimes French too (but those are a minority of schools). No Portuguese.

I'm not saying that that it's okay, because for example we're very close to Brazil but that's how it is...

Anyway...
This is not a fault of your country. I must recognise that English is way more useful than Portuguese, and until the 1990s the situation was the same in Brazil regarding Spanish. An agreement between Brazil and Uruguay made Spanish mandatory in brazilian schools and Portuguese mandatory in Uruguayan schools. Cultural ties between both countries are strong, and Uruguay was part of Brazil during the first three decades of the 19th century.
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Old 07-04-2017, 05:49 AM
 
602 posts, read 493,531 times
Reputation: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
What difference does frequency of use make! The fact is the English language is not 80% Germanic, I will post the pie chart again so you can see.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...art_2D.svg.png


That's not 80%.
ABQ never said that 80% of all English words are of Germanic origin:

"(... but even then 80% of words that even an educated and articulate English speaker uses in a day are of Germanic origin").
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:11 AM
 
Location: SE UK
14,831 posts, read 11,959,989 times
Reputation: 9796
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDentist View Post
ABQ never said that 80% of all English words are of Germanic origin:

"(... but even then 80% of words that even an educated and articulate English speaker uses in a day are of Germanic origin").
That would depend on what exactly you are saying, the fact is that Germanic is only a segment of the English language, one of many contributors, which may just equate as to why English doesn't sound at all like German perhaps a pie chart showing the Dutch language would have a much bigger 'Germanic' segment?
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Old 07-04-2017, 07:40 AM
 
602 posts, read 493,531 times
Reputation: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
That would depend on what exactly you are saying, the fact is that Germanic is only a segment of the English language, one of many contributors, which may just equate as to why English doesn't sound at all like German perhaps a pie chart showing the Dutch language would have a much bigger 'Germanic' segment?
Here's another fact: Germanic is only a segment of German , but the majority of words that Germans use on a everyday basis is Germanic. Same applies to the Dutch, Swedes, Danes, Norwegians aaaaaand: Englishmen (which was ABQ's point to begin with). This is, among other characteristics, what makes English a Germanic language. In fact, it is the most widespread Germanic language. Sure, it has been influenced especially by French, but that can be said about pretty much every European language.


Also, German and Germanic is not the same thing. I am unsure if you know that?
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