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Old 11-20-2017, 08:50 AM
 
10,659 posts, read 9,227,829 times
Reputation: 7232

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
The problem is that most tech companies have spoken against him. Elon Musk (possibly the greatest man alive) left his cabinet because he found him to be a fool. It doesnít help that Neil deGrasse Tyson, Tim Cook, Sundar... have criticised most of his political blunders.
When the academic community turns against you, then there is something wrong.
No, nowadays it becomes almost a crime to support Trump in the US. The tech companies, the academic community feel obligated to talk bad of Trump regardless of facts or their true feeling, otherwise they will be ostracized.

I don't think Trump is any worse or better than Obama, and he is certainly better than Hilary Clinton.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:26 AM
 
2,350 posts, read 1,670,685 times
Reputation: 1534
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I'm not a Trump fan, but I can tell you that the average person in China doesn't actually care enough to really laugh at him, and his gaffes and blunders don't get played it in the media like they are in the US. Most people just know he's rich and old, and they think that he says things that may **** people off, but are true. They think he's tough on things, which they admire (the West is an outlier globally in that most of the rest of the world looks up to strongman leaders, for better or worse).

The average person in China pays little attention to politics because the average person in China can't affect politics in any meaningful way. Social and political movements that aren't endorsed by the Party run the risk of being shut down and the founders punished. People here focus more on work and family, which is something that I think the vocal and disruptive professional protest class in America should try, since all they've managed to do is help make America more fragmented and discordant.
This.

For better or worse, the average guy on the street in China likes leaders like Trump for very simple reasons: that he's a strongman leader, that he's (seemingly) rich and (seemingly) powerful and that he doesn't give a rats' a** about what other people say. This kind of image appeals greatly to the masses in China, where "strongman leaders" have been the norm for the past century - Mao, Deng, and now Xi. Past Chinese leaders who have shown certain degree of "weakness" (aka political openness or over-friendliness with the west) are often cast aside by the public into the footnotes of history - Chiang Kaishek, former party secretary Hu Yaobang, former party secretary Zhao Ziyang (both of whom let the 1989 Tiananmen protests get out of hand). Even the former president Hu Jintao - who until very recently was the most powerful man in China - is now cast aside and completely erased from state media, due to his relatively soft stances on foreign policy and internal dissent, and a lack of control over the PLA military (Hu Jintao reportedly resigned from all political posts and is now practicing Chinese medicine...yep).

This is why Trump has such a mass appeal in China, in that Trump easily fits into a traditional "strongman" mode that average Chinese can understand. Despite appearances of "reform" and "modernization", Mao's famous saying still holds true in China to this day: "Political power comes from the barrel of a gun" - people who think that China has "changed" in this aspect are simply deluding themselves.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:53 PM
 
6,174 posts, read 3,909,811 times
Reputation: 3821
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Past Chinese leaders who have shown certain degree of "weakness" (aka political openness or over-friendliness with the west) are often cast aside by the public into the footnotes of history - Chiang Kaishek
CKS was also a strongman leader (like the really incompetent type). He was as bad as Mao as a killing machine in human form, it's just that in Taiwan, there weren't that many people to slaughter in relations to in China. Nonethelss, he's still one of the worst mass murderers in the history of mankind in total number. It's just that his name is not as established as the Big 3. If he hadn't lost to the communists, he would've been responsible for just as many deaths as Mao did.

As far as political openness and friendliness with the west, it's all propaganda and political indoctrination. China was basically a puppet to Russia during Mao's era, but Mao wasn't painted in the weakling brush for that as the indoctrination has been effective. CKS and KMT were never open or remotely democratic since the establishment of the party either. They were just as bad as the CCP as far as political openness goes. Even today, KMT is still very much a leninist party.

Quote:
people who think that China has "changed" in this aspect are simply deluding themselves.
I don't think anyone thinks that China has changed in this aspect. Who's claiming this?
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:24 PM
 
4,778 posts, read 3,830,286 times
Reputation: 3923
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I'm not a Trump fan, but I can tell you that the average person in China doesn't actually care enough to really laugh at him, and his gaffes and blunders don't get played it in the media like they are in the US. Most people just know he's rich and old, and they think that he says things that may **** people off, but are true. They think he's tough on things, which they admire (the West is an outlier globally in that most of the rest of the world looks up to strongman leaders, for better or worse).

The average person in China pays little attention to politics because the average person in China can't affect politics in any meaningful way. Social and political movements that aren't endorsed by the Party run the risk of being shut down and the founders punished. People here focus more on work and family, which is something that I think the vocal and disruptive professional protest class in America should try, since all they've managed to do is help make America more fragmented and discordant.
Sitting in a conference room at work, and someone from China kept showing me pictures of Donald Trump on Chinese social media, pointing at each picture and laughing hysterically. For some reason, the overly long tie with the cellophane taped ends elicited the loudest laughs.

The Chinese not only see Donald J Trump as an object of humor, they've even incorporated him into the Year of the Trump Chicken. Trump China Rooster Statue
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
729 posts, read 200,487 times
Reputation: 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
No, nowadays it becomes almost a crime to support Trump in the US. The tech companies, the academic community feel obligated to talk bad of Trump regardless of facts or their true feeling, otherwise they will be ostracized.
It could also have something to do with his blunders like pulling out of Paris, cut funding out of science, going back on the Cuba and Iran deals, removal of the ivory ban... Ask yourself this basic question, why is it that the most developed parts of the country (the North East and West Coast are strongly against him)?

Quote:
I don't think Trump is any worse or better than Obama, and he is certainly better than Hilary Clinton.
Nope. Obama is far better than Trump and Iím saying that as someone who thought he was average at best. I didnít like Hillary at all and wouldnít have voted for her had I been American, but I think she would have been a better candidate than Trump. I was willing to give Trump a chance, but so far many of his policies have been flops.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:46 PM
 
800 posts, read 252,277 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmilf View Post
Sitting in a conference room at work, and someone from China kept showing me pictures of Donald Trump on Chinese social media, pointing at each picture and laughing hysterically. For some reason, the overly long tie with the cellophane taped ends elicited the loudest laughs.

The Chinese not only see Donald J Trump as an object of humor, they've even incorporated him into the Year of the Trump Chicken. Trump China Rooster Statue
Trump is an adorable comedian in China. The fact that Chinese laugh doesn't necessarily mean they hate/look down upon him. If you follow Trump on Twitter, you'll find him hilarious at times.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:47 PM
 
800 posts, read 252,277 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Ask yourself this basic question, why is it that the most developed parts of the country (the North East and West Coast are strongly against him)?
Partisan politics.

The blue states will vote for DEM no matter what.
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Old 11-20-2017, 10:52 PM
 
7,529 posts, read 5,425,988 times
Reputation: 10952
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Partisan politics.

The blue states will vote for DEM no matter what.
And the red states will vote Republican no matter what so what's the point?
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Old 11-21-2017, 01:02 AM
 
800 posts, read 252,277 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113 View Post
And the red states will vote Republican no matter what so what's the point?

Yes.

I answered his/her question. Without Trump, blue states would vote for DEM anyway. His/her argument failed to prove Trump is a bad president.
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:13 AM
 
5,454 posts, read 5,284,142 times
Reputation: 1953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
CKS was also a strongman leader (like the really incompetent type). He was as bad as Mao as a killing machine in human form, it's just that in Taiwan, there weren't that many people to slaughter in relations to in China. Nonethelss, he's still one of the worst mass murderers in the history of mankind in total number. It's just that his name is not as established as the Big 3. If he hadn't lost to the communists, he would've been responsible for just as many deaths as Mao did.

As far as political openness and friendliness with the west, it's all propaganda and political indoctrination. China was basically a puppet to Russia during Mao's era, but Mao wasn't painted in the weakling brush for that as the indoctrination has been effective. CKS and KMT were never open or remotely democratic since the establishment of the party either. They were just as bad as the CCP as far as political openness goes. Even today, KMT is still very much a leninist party.


I don't think anyone thinks that China has changed in this aspect. Who's claiming this?
Oh Mao hated Russia as soon as Stalin died. Actually China and Russia had no real diplomatic relation since 1060s until 1989. The honeymoon between China and Russia was very short. They even had a small military conflict on the border.
It's absurd to say Mao's China was a puppet to Russia.

No matter how much you hate Mao and Chiang, they both wanted China to be strong as a nation (though sometimes in crazy ways). That alone deserves some credit.
Nowadays many Taiwanese distance themselves from Chinese heritage as far as possible, so you won't expect them to understand it. It also impossible to convince each other. Totally different perspectives.

Last edited by Bettafish; 11-21-2017 at 04:27 AM..
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