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Old 01-12-2018, 12:12 AM
 
6,103 posts, read 5,933,649 times
Reputation: 2178

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
If they had never taken math in high school they wouldn't be able to solve quadratic equations. The only reason why all Asian college students can solve quadratic equations is that everyone is forced to take math.

Even if American primary and secondary education are indeed underperforming, it's because of extreme inequality, not because their education sucks. Canada for example has excellent school results, almost on par with Asian countries without overworking students to suicide. If Western societies aren't happy with their public education they only need to take notes from Canada.

I don't know why you are so complacent and nationalistic, although all Chinese are.


That can't be further from the case. An average student in Asia can't compose English sentences to express basic ideas.





Spectacular English composition to express basic ideas, isn't it?


Nobel Laureate On Japanese and Asian education: "The Japanese entrance exam system is very bad. And China, Japan, Korea are all the same. For all high school students, their education target is to enter a famous university. I think the Asian educational system is a waste of time. Young people [should be able] to study different things."
And Japan is already a lot less brutal on its students than Korea and China.

That "Racist Park" sign was made in the 1990s and replaced long time ago. Older Chinese had poor English education and my parents never learned English in school. However we are talking about today.

Quadratic equations are taught before high school. It's a shame if a college student cannot solve them.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,594 posts, read 12,606,767 times
Reputation: 11135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
LOL
Even Americans admit their math education sucks (on average). I don't know why you are so self loathing, although many Taiwanese are.
I used to be a math tutor in an accredited American university. Quite some college students cannot solve quadratic equations! In China there is no way to find such a college student.

You are laughable to deny American students have much worse foreign language proficiency than Asian students. I don't know what you do in Taiwan, but in China an average student can compose English sentences to express basic ideas. Yes their oral English is usually bad but at least they can write. American students usually can do nothing.

You are the only one I have met to claim math education in America is better than in East Asia.
I won't defend American public education's failing in teaching mathematics, but you have a tendency to overestimate the average intelligence and skills of people in China.

You have brought up quadratic equations before; I recall perhaps two years ago you did, and I ran it by my wife and a few friends and employees, all of whom had a response of "shen me? (What?)" or, "haha, only for Gaokao." You have, or at least project, a very skewed sense of what is "normal" in China.

The average person in China is average. They work at a 7-11 or a factory, or own a noodle shop or drive a Jinbei van for SF. They aren't a mathematical powerhouse who jovially crunches numbers over tea while watching their net worth skyrocket and buy another Bentley and laughs at the silly Westerners who are struggling to figure out how to balance their checkbook. For overseas Chinese, you can find solace in the fact that a higher than average percentage of high-achieving people from your country move abroad and thus you are overrepresented in STEM fields, but over here, well, I didn't see any foreigners digging the trench to lay down the fiber optic cable for the villlage they are rebuilding.

You posted elsewhere that a Chinese person could learn another dialect (Mandarin to Cantonese, Cantonese to Madarin) with "a month of study;" if that was the case then I wouldn't encounter people in GZ who can't speak Cantonese or Mandarin, both of whom I encounter daily. My wife has lived in Guangdong for seven years and can barely speak or understand Cantonese; the younger people in her family in Hunan can barely speak their regional dialect and middle aged or older folks struggle with Mandarin, so there are communication gaps between generations.

Most young people can identify Roman characters and know their Chinese pronunciation, but can't actually put together a coherent English sentence, and never will be able to. They won't need to as they will mostly go on to work average jobs as average people in a non-anglophone nation where it is unnecessary, much like how the average American will never be at a loss for being unable to communicate in Spanish or Mandarin, so I don't see this as inherently detrimental, but for the sake of the discussion, it's worth noting.

Anyways, these mathematical skills are great for teaching uncritical, black-and-white thought, which is what the Chinese gov't wants of its most of its citizens. The lack of creativity, thoughtfulness, or nuance among supposedly intellectually superior Chinese students from first-tier Chinese cities and their higher propensity for depression and alienation in an environment abroad where simply knowing the answer to a test isn't the be-all, end-all is well documented and not worth my time to repeat.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:01 PM
 
6,103 posts, read 5,933,649 times
Reputation: 2178
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I won't defend American public education's failing in teaching mathematics, but you have a tendency to overestimate the average intelligence and skills of people in China.

You have brought up quadratic equations before; I recall perhaps two years ago you did, and I ran it by my wife and a few friends and employees, all of whom had a response of "shen me? (What?)" or, "haha, only for Gaokao." You have, or at least project, a very skewed sense of what is "normal" in China.

The average person in China is average. They work at a 7-11 or a factory, or own a noodle shop or drive a Jinbei van for SF. They aren't a mathematical powerhouse who jovially crunches numbers over tea while watching their net worth skyrocket and buy another Bentley and laughs at the silly Westerners who are struggling to figure out how to balance their checkbook. For overseas Chinese, you can find solace in the fact that a higher than average percentage of high-achieving people from your country move abroad and thus you are overrepresented in STEM fields, but over here, well, I didn't see any foreigners digging the trench to lay down the fiber optic cable for the villlage they are rebuilding.

You posted elsewhere that a Chinese person could learn another dialect (Mandarin to Cantonese, Cantonese to Madarin) with "a month of study;" if that was the case then I wouldn't encounter people in GZ who can't speak Cantonese or Mandarin, both of whom I encounter daily. My wife has lived in Guangdong for seven years and can barely speak or understand Cantonese; the younger people in her family in Hunan can barely speak their regional dialect and middle aged or older folks struggle with Mandarin, so there are communication gaps between generations.

Most young people can identify Roman characters and know their Chinese pronunciation, but can't actually put together a coherent English sentence, and never will be able to. They won't need to as they will mostly go on to work average jobs as average people in a non-anglophone nation where it is unnecessary, much like how the average American will never be at a loss for being unable to communicate in Spanish or Mandarin, so I don't see this as inherently detrimental, but for the sake of the discussion, it's worth noting.

Anyways, these mathematical skills are great for teaching uncritical, black-and-white thought, which is what the Chinese gov't wants of its most of its citizens. The lack of creativity, thoughtfulness, or nuance among supposedly intellectually superior Chinese students from first-tier Chinese cities and their higher propensity for depression and alienation in an environment abroad where simply knowing the answer to a test isn't the be-all, end-all is well documented and not worth my time to repeat.
I said "college students" in China can solve quadratic equations, not those who attended college 20 years ago or never. It is perfectly true that every college student in China can do it (maybe except for those who major in music, fine arts etc). Those who graduated long time ago can recall with minimum review. My parents can do it.

I said a Cantonese speaker can learn to understand Mandarin within a month "if he makes efforts". If he does not make efforts, of course not. Many people in Guangdong never bother to learn Cantonese, especially if they live in Shenzhen where Mandarin suffices. Also it is more difficult for Mandarin speakers to learn Cantonese than the other way round, because written Chinese is based on Mandarin. So you cited my words in a wrong way.

I do not know what your friend circle is in China, but IIRC your wife is from rural Hunan. No offense at all but rural families do not represent the level of common knowledge or education of normal urban population either. Most urban Chinese do not work in 7-11 or a factory, or own a noodle shop or drive a Jinbei van for SF. If you ask those people, typically they were born in villages. There is nothing wrong or inferior about it, but they do not represent the other half of Chinese population, which you seem to lack contact with. An average urban Chinese (born with a city hukou) works in a state-owned institution/company, or runs some business in a city.
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