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Old 03-19-2018, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,350,641 times
Reputation: 11103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
Different cultures place different priorities on various societal values, lifestyle outcomes or social dynamics. I suspect the metrics used to assess "happiness" or "welfare" just align more closely to Nordic norms than those of other groups.

Some cultures value personal independence (economic, social etc) pretty highly, for example, which would not fit the social welfare model in place in many of the countries rated highly in this survey.
Sure there are different cultural difference, but in this report people were simply asked "how happy are you now and how happy do you think you would be in the future?" and other questions like:

“If you were in trouble, do you have relatives or friends you can count on to help you whenever you need them, or not?”

“Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with your freedom to choose what you do with your life?”

“Have you donated money to a charity in the past month?”

“Is corruption widespread throughout the government or not?” and “Is corruption widespread within businesses or not?”


It's completely false that the Nordic countries would've traded personal freedom for social welfare. All countries rank in the top in economical, personal, political, religious freedoms, and also at the top in social mobility, press freedom and freedom of assembly. It's not a zero-sum game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Scandinavian countries will always be the top happiest places on earth, it's just a shame the requirement is you being apart of the white majority population to enjoy the best benefits.

I spent several weeks in Norway as an African American. You wouldn't believe the remarks and stares I got since I had the audacity to be with a local white woman. I talked to asians who lived there as well and they shared similar experiences.

Best part is they thought I was a Somalian uber driver because there is a number of Somalian immigrants living there. Nope, I wasn't happy at all in these homogeneous countries. For cultural and racial diversity, they still have a long way to go.

But if you're white, it most certainly is the happiest/best place on earth.
For the first time in this specific survey also immigrants were polled. And both ethnic Finns and immigrants were ranked as number 1.

I don't deny that there wouldn't be some levels of xenophobia or simply people being unaccustomed to visible minorities. After all, it's a rather new trend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usuariodeldia View Post
I wouldn’t live in Helsinki if you paid me. Months and months with cold temperatures and darkness, very dull place, and sort of isolated. Nah
You have said you've lived in Montreal, so I don't see how the climate would be such a shock to you. Except of course if you weren't totally miserable because of the climate.
BTW, Helsinki ranks very high in the best cities to live in rankings as well. And funny to say as an Australian that Helsinki would be "isolated", when Australia is THE definition of isolation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula12 View Post
I often wonder what the methodology is for these reports. At the top you have Finland, which has an unusually high suicide rate for a highly developed western nation, and not too far behind is Iceland, a country with the highest rates of anti-depressant usage in the world.

Another thing most of the countries in the top 10 have in common is gloomy climates. Is it suggesting that climate is irrelevant? I find that hard to believe, I also find it hard to believe that people living around the Baltic would be happier than people living around the Mediterranean.
Finland's suicide rate is largely a quite obsolete stereotype. Sure, the suicide rate is high compared to Spain and Italy, but on similar levels to the US, France and Switzerland. If you see a limited-sample study as a poor indicator, I think the 800 people committing suicide in Finland annually is an even poorer indicator.

Climate doesn't seem to be a big factor. And it's quite understandable. I don't want to diss the Mediterranean countries, but they have big problems with unemployment, affordable housing, purchasing power, personal opportunities and have low trust in their political system.

I can't see how anyone could think that life in Greece would be at the moment better than life in Finland. Sunshine and nice beaches doesn't help if you can't afford even basic prescription drugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
The unhappy ones have committed suicide,lol.
There are actually several studies pointing out that the more overall happiness around you it might make your unhappiness stronger.
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:16 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,133 posts, read 5,942,638 times
Reputation: 4742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caligula12 View Post
I often wonder what the methodology is for these reports. At the top you have Finland, which has an unusually high suicide rate for a highly developed western nation, and not too far behind is Iceland, a country with the highest rates of anti-depressant usage in the world.

Another thing most of the countries in the top 10 have in common is gloomy climates. Is it suggesting that climate is irrelevant? I find that hard to believe, I also find it hard to believe that people living around the Baltic would be happier than people living around the Mediterranean.
I don't think the climates are THAT bad, personally I hate cold weather but millions of people seem to survive Scandinavian/Nordic climates every year without too much bother and the Summers are probably very pleasant.
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Old 03-19-2018, 01:43 PM
 
893 posts, read 530,522 times
Reputation: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Sure there are different cultural difference, but in this report people were simply asked "how happy are you now and how happy do you think you would be in the future?" and other questions like:

“If you were in trouble, do you have relatives or friends you can count on to help you whenever you need them, or not?”

“Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with your freedom to choose what you do with your life?”

“Have you donated money to a charity in the past month?”

“Is corruption widespread throughout the government or not?” and “Is corruption widespread within businesses or not?”


It's completely false that the Nordic countries would've traded personal freedom for social welfare. All countries rank in the top in economical, personal, political, religious freedoms, and also at the top in social mobility, press freedom and freedom of assembly. It's not a zero-sum game.
People from different cultures would respond to those questions differently for a variety of reasons. Even in the English speaking world, you'd get responses driven by different values, perceptions and attitudes. A society that is more questioning of authority will likely rate 'corruption' higher even if the actual level of corruption is no different, for example. Then compound that with anomalies caused by language.

The Nordic countries have traded personal economic freedom for social welfare due to their very high taxation rates needed to fund that model. Pay more in taxes = spend less according to your own values and aspirations.

Last edited by Bakery Hill; 03-19-2018 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 03-19-2018, 02:03 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,805 posts, read 16,892,103 times
Reputation: 8975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Scandinavian countries will always be the top happiest places on earth, it's just a shame the requirement is you being apart of the white majority population to enjoy the best benefits.

I spent several weeks in Norway as an African American. You wouldn't believe the remarks and stares I got since I had the audacity to be with a local white woman. I talked to asians who lived there as well and they shared similar experiences.

Best part is they thought I was a Somalian uber driver because there is a number of Somalian immigrants living there. Nope, I wasn't happy at all in these homogeneous countries. For cultural and racial diversity, they still have a long way to go.

But if you're white, it most certainly is the happiest/best place on earth.
A great example of how "different" we are as humans, skin color unfortunately is seen as such an "alien" thing in many places, many of us with the same skin color as them will have such a different experience as someone with darker skin...

An African-American would probably face less troubles in France or England compared to somewhere like Norway or Iceland.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Finland
1,067 posts, read 835,857 times
Reputation: 1474
I agree Ariete on these suicide case, it seems to be some kind myth.

Let's see some fast statistic example between Finland and Netherlands,from year 2015:
-Suicides in Finland, 716 cases and around 5500000 citizens,means around 13 cases / 100000 peoples
-Suicides in Netherlands, 5516 + cases (Statistic numbers just from euthanasia cases and yes, it is suicide) and around 17000000 citizens,means around 33,5 + cases / 100000 peoples.

If checking statistics from countries of Europe (2015), figures of Finland is on quite average level.
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Old 03-19-2018, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Near Luxembourg
1,693 posts, read 723,567 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by UserFinn View Post
I agree Ariete on these suicide case, it seems to be some kind myth.

Let's see some fast statistic example between Finland and Netherlands,from year 2015:
-Suicides in Finland, 716 cases and around 5500000 citizens,means around 13 cases / 100000 peoples
-Suicides in Netherlands, 5516 + cases (Statistic numbers just from euthanasia cases and yes, it is suicide) and around 17000000 citizens,means around 33,5 + cases / 100000 peoples.

If checking statistics from countries of Europe (2015), figures of Finland is on quite average level.

I think you are above France. Which means you are bad. Because France is bad for a lot of things.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Finland
24,268 posts, read 17,350,641 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
The Nordic countries have traded personal economic freedom for social welfare due to their very high taxation rates needed to fund that model. Pay more in taxes = spend less according to your own values and aspirations.
All countries with a functioning government have taxes, so we're all in the same boat. Those Western countries which have lower income taxes have to pay for healthcare insurance, college tuition, daycare and different kinds of deductibles and co-pays. Those are in effect taxes, they are just not called a tax.

And even after that, the Swede getting average net wage (2600) still has more economic opportunities than the Mexican getting average wage (500), because the COL is not 5 times cheaper in Mexico.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:11 AM
 
Location: France, Bordeaux
381 posts, read 187,306 times
Reputation: 444
I have never understood this hate for taxes whether it is the government that levies or a private company the result is the same. And still the state doesn't need to make a profit while for a private company it is a necessity.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:31 AM
 
Location: Near Luxembourg
1,693 posts, read 723,567 times
Reputation: 1049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bordeaux33 View Post
I have never understood this hate for taxes whether it is the government that levies or a private company the result is the same. And still the state doesn't need to make a profit while for a private company it is a necessity.
Well the state takes enough money to pay everyone and invest too. So at the end it's quite close.

Anyway, I agree.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:39 AM
 
23 posts, read 12,116 times
Reputation: 28
Why should the state take from hard working people and give to the lazy ones? Sure, some ill/old people need it but many people abuse the welfare systems in Europe. What if people just stop working?
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