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Old 04-22-2018, 03:03 PM
 
786 posts, read 449,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
That is nothing to do with being liberal - it's just a compulsory payment legally required by to be made by employers. Liberal should equate with choice.

NZ has a similar scheme, but while the employers contribution is also legally required [at a lower rate than Australia], joining the scheme isn't mandatory.

NZ pensions aren't means tested.
Its a bit more than that though; its also about flexibility in employee contributions and to what degree they're encouraged by taxation law.

Not means tested "at the current time".
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Top of the South (Motueka), NZ
14,959 posts, read 11,472,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
Its a bit more than that though; its also about flexibility in employee contributions and to what degree they're encouraged by taxation law.

Not means tested "at the current time".
They don't fit the definition of liberal though, but of regulation.

Liberal in both the social and economic sense, is about opportunity/freedom/acceptance/choice, not requirements.

I would say that a liberal approach to retirement, would allow one to retire broke, rich, or anywhere in between.

Last edited by Joe90; 04-22-2018 at 03:49 PM..
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:13 PM
 
786 posts, read 449,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
They don't fit the definition of liberal though, but of regulation.

Liberal in both the social and economic sense, is about freedom/choice, not requirements.

I would say that a liberal approach to retirement, would allow one to retire broke, rich, or anywhere in between.
You can certainly take any of those options here ;-) Some retired folk here go on a massive spending spree in their early retirement, betting that they won't necessarily live that long, and that a government pension will support them in later life if the math didn't work out that way.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Top of the South (Motueka), NZ
14,959 posts, read 11,472,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
You can certainly take any of those options here ;-) Some retired folk here go on a massive spending spree in their early retirement, betting that they won't necessarily live that long, and that a government pension will support them in later life if the math didn't work out that way.
That's the same as here, but that's not the issue.

Forcing regulation and financial contribution from employers, for the retirement of another, isn't socially or economically liberal
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:24 PM
 
786 posts, read 449,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
That's the same as here, but that's not the issue.

Forcing regulation and financial contribution from employers, for the retirement of another, isn't socially or economically liberal
But higher taxation to fund government controlled pensions is?

From a social perspective, the more people are able to make their own decisions and not be dependent on the agenda of a government of the day seems a better option.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Top of the South (Motueka), NZ
14,959 posts, read 11,472,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
But higher taxation to fund government controlled pensions is?

From a social perspective, the more people are able to make their own decisions and not be dependent on the agenda of a government of the day seems a better option.
No, but I'm not saying it is - just that your example of being more liberal, isn't a good one.

I don't think there would be much difference between the three countries. Laws don't always reflect attitudes, and attitudes don't always reflect law.

I agree that a financially secure retirement is better, but it isn't liberal.

Last edited by Joe90; 04-22-2018 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Australia
79 posts, read 14,802 times
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Perhaps someone can define liberalism for me.

I think here even if we are not liberal we are laid back. For example, although a considerable percentage of the population did oppose gay marriage in the vote, it is a complete non issue now. There have been a few photos of the first marriages and that has been it.

Religion and politics are almost completely separated here. Religious politicians, and we have a few, rarely mention their views unless it is particularly relevant to an issue, as some thought with the gay marriage vote.

But are you talking about economically liberal or socially liberal?
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,178 posts, read 9,677,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
After speaking to Canadians in Australia though, Canada does seem to restrict choices available to the broader community on a number of key points, though.

Private health insurance, and hence access to care outside the government run system, seems limited to services not covered by that system. Public funding for schools outside the government run sector seems to be a contentious topic, and not available in many provinces. In those types of issues, Australia seems to offer more choice for the majority of people.

Similarly, Australia's programs for retirement income give the average working person far more opportunity to be self sufficient, and not be dependent on the government of the day, than is the case in New Zealand.
So the government run system in Canada is for Basic Healthcare only. It does not include things like prescriptions, dental care, chiropractic etc. If you want coverage for those things you need private care. People on social assistance will get some of that on a limited basis, otherwise it is usually through private insurance as part of a work benefits package.

As for Basic Healthcare - the premise behind the Cad system is that everyone is treated equally regardless if you are poor or wealthy. A private system in conjunction with a public one could be at odds with one another. You may get the better talented H.C professionals attracted to the private system where the pay is greater and thus wealthier individuals get better and faster care than those who can't afford it. There may be less choice for Basic Healthcare - but the premise of the system as a whole is that everyone is entitled to basic healthcare in an equitable manner and order of treatment is based on severity of the health issue and not if you can afford private options.

When you say public funding for schools outside the government sector seems to be contentious. I don't know what you mean by that. There certainly are private schools in Canada. Kids who go there are generally from well off families. Funding for those schools like Montessori here in Ontario - is funded by the deeper wallets of wealthy private families. If you have money in Canada - you can certainly send your kid to a private school.

Last edited by fusion2; 04-22-2018 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:04 PM
 
786 posts, read 449,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post

When you say public funding for schools outside the government sector seems to be contentious. I don't know what you mean by that. There certainly are private schools in Canada. Kids who go there are generally from well off families. Funding for those schools like Montessori here in Ontario - is funded by the deeper wallets of wealthy private families. If you have money in Canada - you can certainly send your kid to a private school.
Here the non government school sector, including religious school networks, is funded by government nation wide. So you have large systems of Catholic, Anglican and increasingly other religious schools that are taxpayer funded. A large proportion of kids from all socio-economic backgrounds go to private schools. That seemed to really surprise someone from Nova Scotia I met here not long ago.

Last edited by Bakery Hill; 04-22-2018 at 04:15 PM..
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,178 posts, read 9,677,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakery Hill View Post
Here the non government school sector, including religious school networks, is funded by government nation wide. So you have large systems of Catholic, Anglican and increasingly other religious schools that are taxpayer funded. A large proportion of kids from all socio-economic backgrounds go to private schools. That seemed to really surprise someone from Nova Scotia I met here not long ago.
I personally am not a big fan of taxpayers funding religious schools/school boards. In a secular society, public funding should be for the public system only. That said, I can't speak for Nova Scotia but here in Ontario and specifically Canada's largest city - Toronto, public funding for a religious school board is alive and well. Oddly enough The Toronto Catholic District School Board is the largest publicly funded Catholic school board in the world. Even though I do not agree about it getting public funds - it does attract many different people of socioeconomic backgrounds and is diverse as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toront...t_School_Board

From what I know, other religious school boards or schools outside Catholicism are not publicly funded.
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