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Old 05-27-2018, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,601 posts, read 1,792,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
See now this is a very interesting observation to me.. Most of the people I know are aiming for a better work/life balance. In my city, part of the reason why you see soooo many condo's going up isn't just because of geographic cutoffs (greenbelt), it is because people want to live closer to the largest economic clusters in the city, live closer to mass transit lines and also to be in close proximity to urban amenities and entertainment venues.
This is also happening in the US too primarily with younger people, this is a leading reason why many cities in the US are getting ridiculously expensive because all the NIMBYS prevent developers from meeting the current demand, also once more young people accumulate enough wealth to actually buy a condo/house I think the trend will only strengthen.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:45 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 1,046,688 times
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Also a conundrum of US major cities is many have inferior public schools or perceived as poor and schools end up having a much higher % of minorities then White. Many if they can afford it ... choose parochial and private schools. Even home-schooling.

But those who are less able to afford a private school in the city? Like even many young Professionals who prefer the very pricey today urban cores and near urban core areas they have renewed and gentrified. Once they have school-age children. Many may choose the suburbs where better public schools with a less minority predominate make-up ... to move to and accept a farther commute or transit options if lucky available there.

Canada and the US still have differing issues that guide choices and US cities that many have very light zoning. Even a city like Chicago ... that had early zoning and standard streets with uniform frontage required. Still allows virtually anywhere. One can still build a single unit home on a standard sized city lot .... without city approval first. More then a single home .... like a multi-unit dwelling. You need approval. A high-rise it has to be a area zoning allows for one .... or it cannot happen.

Overall perceived poorer larger-city public schools. Also stymie cities in keeping the professionals that gentrified their city first, once they have their own school-age children. Many feel pressured to relocate to suburbs for better public schools (or if they can afford it ... a private school to stay in the city). Canada probably has much less such a issue.

How the thread got into urbanity of cities? Density and high-rises to Canada doing cities more urban and better. Still has far less US kinds of issues. US CSAs still are primarily on commuting patterns. If a suburb or area ... still has a certain % of residents commuting into the main city? It becomes part of a CSA as a Extension of its MSA or Metro area. CSA's are unique to the US and not created to boost US cities in the international arena.

Just adding to why US cities are still building differently and suburbs still spreading and how public schools hurt US cities keeping families many times and also become far higher in % minority.

American cities may just have people who want suburban homes and more green-space in yards. People also more willing to commute farther. Gas in the US is still in some instances ... is still much cheaper then in European cities. When you are talking different countries and cultures? Expect different built environments too.

Last edited by DavePa; 05-27-2018 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:13 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,129 posts, read 21,337,146 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
See now this is a very interesting observation to me.. Most of the people I know are aiming for a better work/life balance. In my city, part of the reason why you see soooo many condo's going up isn't just because of geographic cutoffs (greenbelt), it is because people want to live closer to the largest economic clusters in the city, live closer to mass transit lines and also to be in close proximity to urban amenities and entertainment venues.
There are many more condos going up in the US as well. Well, I shouldn't say "going up" as in many places they are apartments being converted to condos. The ones closer to transit and work like you mention are well beyond the price range for ordinary people. Here' if you want that convenience you have to pay for it.
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Old 05-28-2018, 02:27 AM
 
2,265 posts, read 1,046,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2 View Post
See now this is a very interesting observation to me.. Most of the people I know are aiming for a better work/life balance. In my city, part of the reason why you see soooo many condo's going up isn't just because of geographic cutoffs (greenbelt), it is because people want to live closer to the largest economic clusters in the city, live closer to mass transit lines and also to be in close proximity to urban amenities and entertainment venues.
Interesting Canadian CBC News link from 2012. Discusses the "Manhattanization of Toronto" into mostly condo's over detached homes. Changed the housing dreams of families over the decade. Clearly proven true.

The 'Manhattanization' of Toronto will change family-housing dreams | CBC News

Real estate newsletter editor Ben Myers says the transition to condo life will require a change in mindset for families.

Along with a shrinking stock, prices for single detached homes and townhomes are projected to go up 30 to 50 per cent in the next decade, while condo prices are expected to rise only moderately or stay flat as the oversupply in that market continues to grow.

That scenario effectively eclipses ordinary families out of the market, making condo living the default housing option for those who want to remain in the core.

It's a phenomenon real estate mogul Brad Lamb refers to as the "Manhattanization" of Toronto.

Above not my opinion.

Toronto's zoning developers from single detached homes. Effectively has had new Toronto families forgo the dream more then their American Big city counterparts and other Canadian cities as well. Large International investment and local investors. Clearly did follow the changeover Toronto steered itself toward.

American cities developers still built for a demand for single detached homes. Some cities naturally saw a demand for some high-rise and other multi-residential buildings. But the fastest growing sunbelt US cities far less. The manhattanization in Chicago was not by zoning for it. Developers seeing demand for views of Lake Michigan and core skyscrapers fueled it, along with a more Manhattan-like living. Still the majority of the cities neighborhood areas. Are protected from high-rise infringement into its built environment, as some in Toronto are probably also. But still a detached single home on a city-size lot in Chicago..... can still get built anywhere in without city approval first more then that you need it.

Last edited by DavePa; 05-28-2018 at 03:19 AM..
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Old 05-28-2018, 05:28 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
8,486 posts, read 2,862,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
I disagree completely NYC is suburban as hell. For every Brooklyn, Bronx and Manhattan their are several suburban counties with similar populations of commuters. Is it more urban than other places? Definitely but go outside of the 3 densest boroughs and half of queens and throw in some of New Jersey and a few other dense cities and towns and Metro Toronto still makes a ton of New York City look downright rural and Toronto isn’t even that dense to begin with. Most major cities might offer more urban living but the main difference between an urban area in the U.S that is considered dense and one that isn’t is that one is 40% of citizens living in High density the other is 10% or even 5% of citizens living in such density, still 8 times as many people living in high density compared to other U.S cities but not the majority. This is even throwing in dense suburbia/ SFH as high density when you take that out even New York is only having 20%-30% living in truly high density with the rest living in dense SFH and just straight up suburbia.
NYC is expensive even boroughs beyond Manhattan and Brooklyn are expensive, and you don's get a lot for your money when compared to some other suburbs in smaller less important cities.

The City itself like other majot big cities is well connected through a good public transport system which differentiates it from much of the vast area which is designated as being part of the NYC Metro area.

Furthermore the initial post I was replying to was this -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish

Americans don't want to live in apartment buildings, and they can afford it.

They go to supermarkets and malls to do shopping, and do not rely on any urban facilities.

I would suggest that a lot of New Yorkers have local shops just as the different boroughs in places such as London do, and that many people do live in smaller houses and apartments due to the expense. You can live in beautiful surburban areas in major cities but generally the closer to the heart of the city the more expensive it's ging to be.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 10,403,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
This is also happening in the US too primarily with younger people, this is a leading reason why many cities in the US are getting ridiculously expensive because all the NIMBYS prevent developers from meeting the current demand, also once more young people accumulate enough wealth to actually buy a condo/house I think the trend will only strengthen.
Actually I find Seattle notable for this! I notice a lot of construction going on in the city. Honestly, i'm not surprised this is happening. I've always felt as though there will come a time when a city or metro just becomes too sprawled out for it to continue on that path. There are certainly lifestyle benefits of living and working close to one another. Generally speaking too - these areas are the centre of action and entertainment. I also can buy that younger people and millennials in general are more open to the concept of working hard but tempered with playing hard mentality.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Toronto
12,581 posts, read 10,403,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
Interesting Canadian CBC News link from 2012. Discusses the "Manhattanization of Toronto" into mostly condo's over detached homes. Changed the housing dreams of families over the decade. Clearly proven true.

The 'Manhattanization' of Toronto will change family-housing dreams | CBC News

Real estate newsletter editor Ben Myers says the transition to condo life will require a change in mindset for families.

Along with a shrinking stock, prices for single detached homes and townhomes are projected to go up 30 to 50 per cent in the next decade, while condo prices are expected to rise only moderately or stay flat as the oversupply in that market continues to grow.

That scenario effectively eclipses ordinary families out of the market, making condo living the default housing option for those who want to remain in the core.

It's a phenomenon real estate mogul Brad Lamb refers to as the "Manhattanization" of Toronto.

Above not my opinion.

Toronto's zoning developers from single detached homes. Effectively has had new Toronto families forgo the dream more then their American Big city counterparts and other Canadian cities as well. Large International investment and local investors. Clearly did follow the changeover Toronto steered itself toward.

American cities developers still built for a demand for single detached homes. Some cities naturally saw a demand for some high-rise and other multi-residential buildings. But the fastest growing sunbelt US cities far less. The manhattanization in Chicago was not by zoning for it. Developers seeing demand for views of Lake Michigan and core skyscrapers fueled it, along with a more Manhattan-like living. Still the majority of the cities neighborhood areas. Are protected from high-rise infringement into its built environment, as some in Toronto are probably also. But still a detached single home on a city-size lot in Chicago..... can still get built anywhere in without city approval first more then that you need it.
2012 is a lifetime ago in the housing market as dynamic as Toronto's real estate market is.. The prediction of an oversupply in the condo market was patently false. Condo's are still being cranked out like no tomorrow in 2018. There has been a recent thaw in condo demand but that is very recent (not 2012) and is not necessarily indicative of any long term trend. Because Toronto is no longer able to build SFH's in large quantity due to the Greenbelt surrounding the metro - demand for condo's and townhouses/rowhomes (yes rowhomes are being built In Toronto and GTA in 2018) is very strong. If you want to live in low density stuff like a SFH - you'll pay a premium in Toronto - like many global cities.

Also, don't just assume condo's can't be family friendly either!!!
https://www.thestar.com/life/homes/2...-families.html

I stayed in an Airbnb in an apartment building in the renowned L'example district of Barcelona a few years back and it struck me how many families lived in these buildings. Kids playing in the courtyard in the evening after schools, cafe's and markets at your fingertips and all the urban amenities you could ask for in walking distance. Some people may find being able to walk their kid to an art gallery or museum or science centre as appealing as having a SFH backyard. Condo's or apartment buildings don't have to mean families need not apply... It really strikes at the mentality of the family unit and what is important to them.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Chicago
2,354 posts, read 2,001,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuebecOpec View Post
In Canada and Europe, people who are responsible for defining metropolitan areas actually carefully examine whether a city and town has "much enough to do with the central city at a higher degree", so that it deserves to be incorporated into the metropolitan area. Therefore, the numbers of such metropolitan areas more accurately reflect its corresponding metropolitan feeling and real metropolitan dimension.
You seem to be under the false impression that our metropolitan statistical areas (MSAs) are thrown together at random. They're based on a core city or cities and the commuting patterns on a county level to said core. In order for a county to be included in an MSA, there generally needs to be a 25% commuting threshold to the core. Counties in the US vary wildly in size though, so that's the big reason why some MSAs on paper appear so large in terms of land area.

Also, distance is not nearly as large of an issue as you're making it out to be since American suburbia sprawls like no other country on Earth. A satellite city, suburb, or even exurb can be 40 miles from the core city and still be full of people who commute into that core city every day. Joliet, for example, is roughly that distance from Chicago, and yet the highways are snarled with traffic heading into Chicago every morning, and the Metra commuter rail trains going from Joliet into Chicago are also full of people. That's why it's considered to be apart of greater Chicagoland area.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Chicago
2,354 posts, read 2,001,357 times
Reputation: 2181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Americans don't want to live in apartment buildings, and they can afford it.
They go to supermarkets and malls to do shopping, and do not rely on any urban facilities.
More and more Americans can no longer afford it though. That's a huge issue these days, and it's also part of the reason why our metro areas sprawl so badly. People get priced out of the city or the inner ring burbs, and they keep pushing further and further out. Chicago probably has some of the most obscene sprawl going with its suburbs, even though the core city is so dense, because's there's virtually no geographic limitation. If you're willing to drive the distance, then there's still farmland to be converted.

Also, supermarkets are pervasive in every American city. There's three full sized grocery stores within a 10-15 minute walk from where I used to live in the Lakeview neighborhood in Chicago, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
Atlanta city proper is not a crime ridden haven. It's a booming urban core. It still has some bad areas, but it's the last thing I would call 'crime ridden'

Baltimore, Saint Louis, Cleveland, Detroit, on the other hand are.
Atlanta somehow dodged the crime ridden image. It had a higher homicide rate than Chicago until 2016, and both city's rates remain comparable to each other. Chicago, however, gets called Chiraq by people who know no better.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:20 AM
 
305 posts, read 432,604 times
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I think many U.S. Metro areas are oversized, but a few are understated.

I can't figure out why, for instance, the San Bernadino-Riverside area is separate from the Greater Los Angeles area, when it is pretty clear to anyone who drives out there that the Inland Empire is completely integrated with the L.A. metro.
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