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Old 07-09-2018, 03:34 AM
 
2,099 posts, read 2,914,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philopower View Post
It seems that the US tends to get criticized the most by the global media and governments for their immigration policy,, despite taking in a million people each year. I don’t understand why though? Why does the world feel like it’s americ’s obligation to take in all of the world’s population. Why do people feel like they deserve to live here?

I don't think people at all feel they have a right to live in The States, but being a wealthy nation, posing as such with such great means to enforce its philosophy of the American Way of Life, it can hardly be surprising, if segments of the worlds population, strive to be a part of that perceived life.


America, is hardly alone in being a 'desirable' location. Europe/ Canada/Australia? New Zealand or feature as 'desired' locations. The USA does not even have a especially large foreign population in its midst, as I have already pointed out.


What Americans, could of course give a thought to, is the dire consequences of their foreign adventures have on neighbouring countries of the countries they invade/attack/ or term preferred used.


In cases the impact of poor developing world countries in millions. What America takes quite minute actually.
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:06 AM
 
7 posts, read 1,722 times
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Some rich people want to move to the US, some rich people don't want to.

Those rich people that want to move to the US seems to come mainly from developing countries.
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:10 AM
 
6 posts, read 3,160 times
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I value compassion, but a local underclass should not be neglected to accomodate underclasses from elsewhere.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:29 AM
 
260 posts, read 142,056 times
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"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

-- written on the Statue of Liberty


One important fact most people today seem to forget was prior to 1965, anyone can enter the US regardless of their wealth, stature, or education (or lack thereof), as long as they were white. Being white was the only requirement. After 1965, US immigration policy moved to being merit-based where you can immigrate if you meet certain requirements, such as educational attainment, money, etc. regardless of your race (which is a good thing). Most of you probably would not have been born American if the same standards today we're applied to your grandparents or great-grandparents when they immigrated.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:51 AM
 
6,653 posts, read 7,403,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
To those saying that the US should take in refugees from nations in which it interfered it, I've got news for you. In the real worl, nobody cares about feel good, pseudo-humanitarian drivel. A country is going to take in individuals on the basis of what it considers useful.

People like irish_bob conveniently decide to ignore the fact that there are about a dozen countries who have interfered on Syria, either directly or through the use of proxies.

To answer the TC's question, the US has become the international punching bag during to it's power. You will soon find out that everything wrong in the world is because of America. People will always use the dominant power as a scapegoat to avoid responsibility. The real reason many third world countries are in the condition they currently are is because they deflect all their problems on others, while refusing to tackle them themselves.

In conclusion, countries should not be forced to take in anyone they don't want to satisfy they don't want. History has proven time and time again, that humanitarianism is entirely subjective.
If fairness is a principle that is to be followed, then we need to hold every nation responsible from the dawn of time. Either we go all in, or not at all. That's what real humanitarianism is about.

Evidently, that is not a very feasible policy to apply. In fact, one of my biggest pet peeves about humanity in general is the idea it perpetuates about fairness. Why does everyone online always talk with that principle in mind? Why does everything need to be fair?

The US is currently on top of the food chain. Why should it pursue policies that put it at a disadvantage? Expecting the US or any other major power to play fair is ridiculous, when other nations are not equal to them, plain and simple. That's why the big players will always have more leverage in the world. They are the anchors holding it together (not just the US, but a good number of large players, especially those part of the UNSC).
im opposed to allowing migrants from radically different cultures enter europe en masse , doesnt negate the fact that the genesis of the current syrian war and refugee crisis is rooted in the invasion of iraq in 2003 ,this destabalised the region so spare us your " america is the international punching bag " drivel , you created this and should be the ones dealing with it primarily

first of all unfortunately you need to be educated about the huge mess , you seem to think your some sort of victim here as opposed to the perpetrator
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:39 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,532 posts, read 18,036,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
im opposed to allowing migrants from radically different cultures enter europe en masse , doesnt negate the fact that the genesis of the current syrian war and refugee crisis is rooted in the invasion of iraq in 2003 ,this destabalised the region so spare us your " america is the international punching bag " drivel , you created this and should be the ones dealing with it primarily

first of all unfortunately you need to be educated about the huge mess , you seem to think your some sort of victim here as opposed to the perpetrator
I thought the Syrian refugree crisis resulted from the civil war in that country that started in 2011. What does it have to do with the invasion of Iraq?
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:44 AM
 
6,653 posts, read 7,403,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I thought the Syrian refugree crisis resulted from the civil war in that country that started in 2011. What does it have to do with the invasion of Iraq?
syria is right next to iraq , the iraq war caused a spill over of refugees into iraq and gave rise to the syrian civil war , syria is also an important location in terms of geo political influence , the russians have a strategic interest in the area , thats why they oppose the removal of assad , the usa has an interest in deposing assad for their own reasons and of course weakening russia in terms of influence is always a priority as well as irianian influence as that is at odds with israeli interests and israeli goals and washington goals are more or less always aligned , the iraqi invasion of 2003 was largely planned by israeli firsters in washington

a well trained monkey could understand how the region was destabalised
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
10,756 posts, read 7,630,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
the american invasion of iraq in 2003 causes the subsequent syrian civil war which created the refugee crisis we have today , america completely destabalised the region

america should be taking in all the refugees , they have hardly taken in any , italy and greece have borne the bulk of this problem so far

the issue of mexican immigrants is a different kettle of fish altogether
You think this all started with the Iraq War??

European nations have been f---ing with the Middle East for centuries, up to and including the 21st! Not to mention the necessitation of Israel due to Europeans trying to destroy and/or ghetto-ize them for the last 1,000 years.

Last edited by Mr. Joshua; 07-09-2018 at 11:42 AM..
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:34 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
6,735 posts, read 9,286,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
syria is right next to iraq , the iraq war caused a spill over of refugees into iraq and gave rise to the syrian civil war , syria is also an important location in terms of geo political influence , the russians have a strategic interest in the area , thats why they oppose the removal of assad , the usa has an interest in deposing assad for their own reasons and of course weakening russia in terms of influence is always a priority as well as irianian influence as that is at odds with israeli interests and israeli goals and washington goals are more or less always aligned , the iraqi invasion of 2003 was largely planned by israeli firsters in washington

a well trained monkey could understand how the region was destabalised
The instability of Iraq probably had a lot to do what happened to Iraq but ultimately the bulk of the problem is that Syria is led by a dictator that represents only a minority of the people. Indeed, there have been previous revolts against the Assads that have nothing whatsoever to do with Iraq.

President Assad inherited his position from his father, Hafez al-Assad, the Syrian dictator who ruled from 1971 to 2000. At first people were hoping that the younger Assad would be unlike his father and be a reformer. But he brutally cracked down on the Arab Spring protestors which led to the Syrian Revolution.

Also important to note is that both Assads are Alawites, a sect of Shia - which explains Shia Iran's long interference in Syria and the Iranian-Syrian Alliance - despite the fact that more than 2/3 of the Syrian population are Sunni.

Since you are Irish, I will use Ireland as an example. Try to imagine if a Protestant dictator took power in Dublin and held his position with military force against the mostly Catholic Irish people for almost 30 years, including using chemical weapons on his own people. Then when he dies, his son inherits the position and continues his father's policies for another 18 years, including suppressing the majority of the Irish with the help of an outside power, the British in London.

That is how many Syrians see it.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:45 AM
 
16,490 posts, read 9,327,499 times
Reputation: 11999
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Umm, the history of the Middle East did not start in 2003. There was trouble there centuries before that. And the U.S. wouldn’t have invaded Iraq if 1. Al Quaeda didn’t attack the U.S. in 2001 (and also 1993), 2. Iraq didn’t invade Kuwait in 1990.

Learn some history first before you go on a bash U.S. diatribe.
Oh brother...the irony!

I noticed you forgot to mention Iran and the part the CIA played in 1954 with that country arriving at it's juncture today. Want to go back further? How about Japan and the part the U.S. played in that country eventually coming to feel it had no other option but to take on the Eagle.

Want to go back even further...….read some Schlesinger and Ferguson.

To quote: Thomas Jefferson "in the 1790s, awaited the fall of the Spanish Empire "until our population can be sufficiently advanced to gain it from them piece by piece". The United States "must be viewed as the nest from which all America, North & South is to be peopled."

Historian Sidney Lens: "the urge for expansion – at the expense of other peoples – goes back to the beginnings of the United States itself".

Yale historian Paul Kennedy put it, "From the time the first settlers arrived in Virginia from England and started moving westward, this was an imperial nation, a conquering nation.

Benjamin Franklin: "the Prince that acquires new Territory ... removes the Natives to give his own People Room ... may be properly called [Father] of [his] Nation".

Noam Chomsky: "the United States is the one country that exists, as far as I know, and ever has, that was founded as an empire explicitly."

C'mon now before presuming to lecture others as to their failings to consider factual history...…….
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