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View Poll Results: Which do you prefer overall?
Madrid 18 72.00%
Washington DC 7 28.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-09-2023, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey
11,955 posts, read 7,701,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_bob View Post
Madrid has a dry heat climate though , Washington ( like New York ) is humid, Madrid is gorgeous in winter compared to Washington
I found Madrid's summers to be much worse than DC's. Yes it is dry, but it is over 100 every single day for weeks at a time. In DC, its in the 80s and humid, but definitely tolerable.

For winter? Madrid has more temperate weather. However, DC gets all four seasons. A lot people definitely prefer that.

I am currently waiting for a snowstorm because we haven't gotten a good one on the East Coast in like 2 years.
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Old 11-09-2023, 01:37 PM
 
10 posts, read 2,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
Madrid is absolutely one of my top 5 favorite cities in the World, and if I lived in Europe it would likely be my chosen place to domicile. As someone who lives in the DC area, Madrid is what I hope to see DC become in a lot of ways, which in of itself has emerged as a budding world class city the past couple of decades, but still a lot of local American issues like crime to fix. I'm a bit envious of Madrid's core density and transit, but I think DC is poised to join that tier on a global scale in a decade or two. Long term I think DC has the potential to make it a really interesting contest. Currently I'll give edge to Madrid.
Uh, a couple things

1) “American issues”. Crime isn’t an “American issue”. Many major European cities have worse rates of robbery, assault, and rape

2) Carrying on about DC as if it hasn’t long been a “global city” is a little ridiculous

3) I don’t know much about Madrid, and I respect the takes from more educated people who have visited, but a lot of the takes about DC strike me as Euro-boosterism mixed with bitter anti-Americanism

Especially this “DC is boring” take. Americans have to be really jaded people to think DC is that boring in a global context. I’m sure there are resort areas and megacities that cater a bit more exclusively to the nightlife crowd than DC does, but you really need to acquaint yourself with cities like Vancouver, Sydney, Chongqing, Birmingham, or Canberra if you’re going to call the entire DC area “boring” for its size or stature. It’s not.

I get that people get very upset when the US is praised in remotely any way (or, alternately, whenever anyone expresses an opinion that diverges from the Euro-supremacist “Europe is the best” worldview that everyone is expected to regurgitate). But this kind of stuff is super annoying. All the takes about US cities and the US in general are just copy pasted slander meant to gatekeep any comparison involving it. “Everywhere else good, the US bad”, or else people scream and cry and stamp their feet. Really pathetic behavior.
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Old 11-09-2023, 03:55 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,885 posts, read 38,781,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubli View Post
Uh, a couple things

1) “American issues”. Crime isn’t an “American issue”. Many major European cities have worse rates of robbery, assault, and rape

2) Carrying on about DC as if it hasn’t long been a “global city” is a little ridiculous

3) I don’t know much about Madrid, and I respect the takes from more educated people who have visited, but a lot of the takes about DC strike me as Euro-boosterism mixed with bitter anti-Americanism

Especially this “DC is boring” take. Americans have to be really jaded people to think DC is that boring in a global context. I’m sure there are resort areas and megacities that cater a bit more exclusively to the nightlife crowd than DC does, but you really need to acquaint yourself with cities like Vancouver, Sydney, Chongqing, Birmingham, or Canberra if you’re going to call the entire DC area “boring” for its size or stature. It’s not.

I get that people get very upset when the US is praised in remotely any way (or, alternately, whenever anyone expresses an opinion that diverges from the Euro-supremacist “Europe is the best” worldview that everyone is expected to regurgitate). But this kind of stuff is super annoying. All the takes about US cities and the US in general are just copy pasted slander meant to gatekeep any comparison involving it. “Everywhere else good, the US bad”, or else people scream and cry and stamp their feet. Really pathetic behavior.
I think you might just not be very well-informed. In "a global context" DC isn't very good when it comes to nightlife and Madrid is pretty good. There's nothing particularly Euro-centric about nightlife since there's great nightlife around the world outside of Europe. DC's issues with nightlife are somewhat high costs, a large proportion of people working in fairly straight-laced work environments which often entails mandatory drug testing that includes a lot of drugs that aren't all that dangerous and very little leeway for work outside of normal office hours, a last call that's usually at 2 am sometimes 3 am, and generally limited liquor licenses. How DC does okay in nightlife especially compared to the vast majority of other US cities is that it has pretty decent density of people and businesses in a lot of its neighborhoods (not downtown proper though for various reasons) so multiple nightlife areas can be sustained and you can get among them, there's a decent transit service so you don't have to drunk drive or have parking take up much space, and enough people to sustain fairly ubiquitous cab/rideshare services. Little of this is specific to the US or to Europe.

Vancouver has generally much worse nightlife than DC, is in a different weight class altogether, though shares DC's negatives of being very expensive with an early last call. It's also not very good for its size/stature.

Sydney is okay and is in a similar weight class and is also quite expensive, but generally has higher density of people and things of all types including nightlife in its urban core, has a much more diversified economy that doesn't generally require drug checks, caters more to tourism/visitors overall, and has no last call hours. Overall, Sydney *does* have better nightlife than DC.

Chongqing is absolutely wild in comparison. It has massive borders which makes its city population numbers much larger than it really is, but it is substantially larger and denser than DC. I don't know why you brought this up in particular, but Chongqing and most large cities in China are really bustling when it comes to nightlife. Chongqing though is especially so because it's built very densely and with all kinds of weird upper and lower level structures where you can keep wandering into some crazy nightlife / entertainment street or entire building. Why would you put this on the list? It's bizarre and might point to your own Euro-centric boosterism or maybe bitter anti-Asianism.

Birmingham I've never been to. It's definitely in a smaller weight and stature class than DC or Madrid. Maybe it punches above its weight, maybe it doesn't. Given what you've written so far, I'm pretty sure no one would take your word on this.

Canberra is the same, though I'll comment that I think Canberra does badly even for its weight class.

These cities that you mentioned are a tiny and not very diverse sample of the world. All but one were from countries that stem from English settlements, and the single *one* example that's not one is Chongqing which is an absolutely bizarre example and sounds as if you had no idea what you're talking about and have never been there before. How was any of that a reasonable look at "a global context"? It really does sound like you have very limited real life experience, and don't understand how unwarranted your confidence is.

This is Chongqing without even going into the many bars and clubs there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMzCwwvHwN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBc4NVO9vig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YeVl2c4tdo

Or how about a non-European non-American person taking a look around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI17FO3IXEs

Oh look someone from the US and not Euro-centric who is actually in Chongqing instead of running their mouths like some sad basement dweller:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duliuAprA5I

What great nightlife area do you even live in that gives you so much confidence to talk about this? Seriously, where do you live? Let everyone know where this probably completely unwarranted confidence comes from.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-09-2023 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 11-09-2023, 06:56 PM
 
10 posts, read 2,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
I think you might just not be very well-informed. In "a global context" DC isn't very good when it comes to nightlife and Madrid is pretty good. There's nothing particularly Euro-centric about nightlife since there's great nightlife around the world outside of Europe. DC's issues with nightlife are somewhat high costs, a large proportion of people working in fairly straight-laced work environments which often entails mandatory drug testing that includes a lot of drugs that aren't all that dangerous and very little leeway for work outside of normal office hours, a last call that's usually at 2 am sometimes 3 am, and generally limited liquor licenses
Um, I think you might be ill informed, because these are cooked up lies or silly, un-specific generalizations. The drug testing thing is the silliest thing I've ever read in my life. You seriously cooked up that wild explanation to justify your arbitrary anti-Americanism?

DC's major nightlife corridors, like U Street Corridor, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Dupont Circle, etc, do not have 2 am call times or "generally limited liquor licenses". You pulled that bland claim out of nowhere, haha. There are no cities that could be generalized this way outside of, like...Dubai. This is just not true of D.C. at all, nor any other city in the US.

Quote:
Sydney is okay and is in a similar weight class and is also quite expensive, but generally has higher density of people and things of all types including nightlife in its urban core, has a much more diversified economy that doesn't generally require drug checks, caters more to tourism/visitors overall, and has no last call hours. Overall, Sydney *does* have better nightlife than DC.
No, it doesn't. Its lock-out laws damage/damaged the nightlife far more than anything similar in D.C. It's urban core did not strike me as being stellar for nightlife, and I would not call it a nightlife city in any respect. The DC area, from Baltimore to NoVa, simply offers far more for nightlife than the Sydney region does.

Sydney and surrounds are marginally less walkable than D.C., with less impressive shopping streets, and a quieter, more suburban feel overall.

Quote:
Chongqing is absolutely wild in comparison. It has massive borders which makes its city population numbers much larger than it really is, but it is substantially larger and denser than DC. I don't know why you brought this up in particular, but Chongqing and most large cities in China are really bustling when it comes to nightlife. Chongqing though is especially so because it's built very densely and with all kinds of weird upper and lower level structures where you can keep wandering into some crazy nightlife / entertainment street or entire building. Why would you put this on the list? It's bizarre and might point to your own Euro-centric boosterism or maybe bitter anti-Asianism.
This is you projecting your anti-Americanism. Most large cities in China don't have great nightlife, and just being "bustling" from insane amounts of population density doesn't entail good nightlife. Chinese cities have your occasional marquee nightclub (playing music that doesn't really translate cross-culturally, I'll add), with tons of sleepy, hotel lounge/bar based nightlife that I'm not into.

Quote:
Birmingham I've never been to. It's definitely in a smaller weight and stature class than DC or Madrid. Maybe it punches above its weight, maybe it doesn't. Given what you've written so far, I'm pretty sure no one would take your word on this.
I think your last sentence tells me you're more concerned with policing everyone to regurgitate anti-American dogma than anything. "I'm sure no one would take your word on this" is just butthurt nastiness. No one should take your word on anything, unless they want to hear overlong, lie-filled tirades that are the product of your weird sense of animosity towards the US.

Quote:
Canberra is the same, though I'll comment that I think Canberra does badly even for its weight class.
No, Canberra is not the same. It has worse nightlife by far. It's not even remotely comparable. You know this.

Quote:
These cities that you mentioned are a tiny and not very diverse sample of the world. All but one were from countries that stem from English settlements, and the single *one* example that's not one is Chongqing which is an absolutely bizarre example and sounds as if you had no idea what you're talking about and have never been there before. How was any of that a reasonable look at "a global context"? It really does sound like you have very limited real life experience, and don't understand how unwarranted your confidence is.
It doesn't sound like you have a grasp on proper sentence structure, for one, two, how does this invalidate anything I said? You don't prove you're any more knowledgeable here. You just insult me for daring to say that the DC area wasn't boring or had nightlife superior to Canberra. Ergo, you're a delusional anti-American copy-pasting the same fallacious anti-American talking points.

...walking around mall-like city plazas surrounded by flashing billboards doesn't mean Chongqing has excellent nightlife. It doesn't. There's a reason it hasn't produced 1/10th of the globally influential music the DC area has, which thrives to this day in shows, clubs, and gigs from Baltimore to Alexandria.

Quote:
Or how about a non-European non-American person taking a look around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI17FO3IXEs

Oh look someone from the US and not Euro-centric who is actually in Chongqing instead of running their mouths like some sad basement dweller:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duliuAprA5I
Yeah, okay, so I take it you're an anti-American tankie/China booster. Again, this doesn't negate anything I said about D.C. and the arguments being made against it.

Quote:
What great nightlife area do you even live in that gives you so much confidence to talk about this? Seriously, where do you live? Let everyone know where this probably completely unwarranted confidence comes from.
Chicago, which has given the world far more globally popular music, culture, and nightlife than most cities in Europe and certainly China. You sound bitter.
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Old 11-09-2023, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Madrid for me, it’s an underrated city with a lot to offer. Don’t get me wrong, I like DC too but it can’t match Madrid’s historic charm.
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Old 11-09-2023, 09:22 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,885 posts, read 38,781,820 times
Reputation: 20904
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubli View Post
Um, I think you might be ill informed, because these are cooked up lies or silly, un-specific generalizations. The drug testing thing is the silliest thing I've ever read in my life. You seriously cooked up that wild explanation to justify your arbitrary anti-Americanism?

DC's major nightlife corridors, like U Street Corridor, Adams Morgan, Georgetown, Dupont Circle, etc, do not have 2 am call times or "generally limited liquor licenses". You pulled that bland claim out of nowhere, haha. There are no cities that could be generalized this way outside of, like...Dubai. This is just not true of D.C. at all, nor any other city in the US.



No, it doesn't. Its lock-out laws damage/damaged the nightlife far more than anything similar in D.C. It's urban core did not strike me as being stellar for nightlife, and I would not call it a nightlife city in any respect. The DC area, from Baltimore to NoVa, simply offers far more for nightlife than the Sydney region does.

Sydney and surrounds are marginally less walkable than D.C., with less impressive shopping streets, and a quieter, more suburban feel overall.



This is you projecting your anti-Americanism. Most large cities in China don't have great nightlife, and just being "bustling" from insane amounts of population density doesn't entail good nightlife. Chinese cities have your occasional marquee nightclub (playing music that doesn't really translate cross-culturally, I'll add), with tons of sleepy, hotel lounge/bar based nightlife that I'm not into.



I think your last sentence tells me you're more concerned with policing everyone to regurgitate anti-American dogma than anything. "I'm sure no one would take your word on this" is just butthurt nastiness. No one should take your word on anything, unless they want to hear overlong, lie-filled tirades that are the product of your weird sense of animosity towards the US.



No, Canberra is not the same. It has worse nightlife by far. It's not even remotely comparable. You know this.



It doesn't sound like you have a grasp on proper sentence structure, for one, two, how does this invalidate anything I said? You don't prove you're any more knowledgeable here. You just insult me for daring to say that the DC area wasn't boring or had nightlife superior to Canberra. Ergo, you're a delusional anti-American copy-pasting the same fallacious anti-American talking points.



...walking around mall-like city plazas surrounded by flashing billboards doesn't mean Chongqing has excellent nightlife. It doesn't. There's a reason it hasn't produced 1/10th of the globally influential music the DC area has, which thrives to this day in shows, clubs, and gigs from Baltimore to Alexandria.



Yeah, okay, so I take it you're an anti-American tankie/China booster. Again, this doesn't negate anything I said about D.C. and the arguments being made against it.



Chicago, which has given the world far more globally popular music, culture, and nightlife than most cities in Europe and certainly China. You sound bitter.
Ha, you have no idea how working for the feds work, eh? You also don't seem to understand that it doesn't require every single person to be subjected to this, but enough to put a damper. Nor is it a singular reason, but just something you're blowing up into a singular rationale because you can't fathom there might be multiple factors in effect at one time.

Anti-Americanism? Are you kidding me? Your caricature of being an American is one of the most anti-American things here. You come off as a dumpster dive of any broad strokes generalization of the worst American stereotyoes out there, like a composite fever dream of how people make fun of Americans.

You have no idea what you're talking about. DC's last call is 2 AM on weekdays, and 3 am on weekends. They have special ordinances every once in a while to allow it to be open later, but they clamp down hard if you don't abide by it. If you don't know about DC bar operating hours or liquor licenses, then maybe you should reconsider weighing in? Or is this just another play at making Americans look bad? Bland claim? Bland? Are you even a native English speaker?

Oh wow, so daring to say Canberra has more boring nightlife, ha. What a bold statement. Did you not at all understand what was being said to you? You don't know what Sydney is like. You definitely have no idea what Chinese cities are like and I should you examples of multiple different facets of nightlife in Chongqing because you obviously have no idea what you're talking. I'm very vocally anti-CCP on this forum, but I at least have some familiarity with what I'm talking about. Remember, you're the one who brought up the city as some kind of weird diversity count in your otherwise completely flat English settler colony conception of "a global context." If you don't think showing that you obviously have no idea what nightlife elsewhere or even DC itself is like doesn't negate the things you say, then that's fantastic. No one is surprised by this.

Chicago does have quite good nightlife! Much better than DC. Less active, but arguably more varied than Madrid and definitely better than DC.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 11-09-2023 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 11-10-2023, 11:39 AM
 
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I've never been to Madrid so I can't compare. DC is nice though, one of my favorite American cities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Ha, you have no idea how working for the feds work, eh? You also don't seem to understand that it doesn't require every single person to be subjected to this, but enough to put a damper. Nor is it a singular reason, but just something you're blowing up into a singular rationale because you can't fathom there might be multiple factors in effect at one time.

Anti-Americanism? Are you kidding me? Your caricature of being an American is one of the most anti-American things here. You come off as a dumpster dive of any broad strokes generalization of the worst American stereotyoes out there, like a composite fever dream of how people make fun of Americans.

You have no idea what you're talking about. DC's last call is 2 AM on weekdays, and 3 am on weekends. They have special ordinances every once in a while to allow it to be open later, but they clamp down hard if you don't abide by it. If you don't know about DC bar operating hours or liquor licenses, then maybe you should reconsider weighing in? Or is this just another play at making Americans look bad? Bland claim? Bland? Are you even a native English speaker?

Oh wow, so daring to say Canberra has more boring nightlife, ha. What a bold statement. Did you not at all understand what was being said to you? You don't know what Sydney is like. You definitely have no idea what Chinese cities are like and I should you examples of multiple different facets of nightlife in Chongqing because you obviously have no idea what you're talking. I'm very vocally anti-CCP on this forum, but I at least have some familiarity with what I'm talking about. Remember, you're the one who brought up the city as some kind of weird diversity count in your otherwise completely flat English settler colony conception of "a global context." If you don't think showing that you obviously have no idea what nightlife elsewhere or even DC itself is like doesn't negate the things you say, then that's fantastic. No one is surprised by this.

Chicago does have quite good nightlife! Much better than DC. Less active, but arguably more varied than Madrid and definitely better than DC.
Is this that same person again, with a different username?
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Old 11-10-2023, 04:21 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,885 posts, read 38,781,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
I've never been to Madrid so I can't compare. DC is nice though, one of my favorite American cities.



Is this that same person again, with a different username?
Yea, DC is also one of my favorite American cities. The museums are fantastic, the bevy of non-profits, institutions and consulates means there are always a lot of activities going on. There's a lot of diversity in the city. The brutalist Metro stations are instantly recognizable and the transit system is overall good and not just good for an American city though it is uniquely good for a US city, but also pretty good by world standards and is still improving and expanding. On a macro level, it's also an incredibly wealthy and influential city. That being said, it's not a great nightlife city even when adjusting for its size. I know people who had lived there in the 80s and 90s and I've been told nightlife there used to be a lot rowdier, and there are a lot of fantastic bands and music groups from DC at the time so there were a lot of different scenes going on, but it's also a pretty common lament that nightlife isn't what it used to be. My experience of DC is only 2010s and onward, and it's not a great nightlife city even though I had/have local friends to take me around, but that doesn't mean it's not a great city.

And yea, it probably is that same user. Same myopia, same aggro.
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Old 11-15-2023, 08:47 AM
 
6,186 posts, read 11,790,664 times
Reputation: 5041
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, DC is also one of my favorite American cities. The museums are fantastic, the bevy of non-profits, institutions and consulates means there are always a lot of activities going on. There's a lot of diversity in the city. The brutalist Metro stations are instantly recognizable and the transit system is overall good and not just good for an American city though it is uniquely good for a US city, but also pretty good by world standards and is still improving and expanding. On a macro level, it's also an incredibly wealthy and influential city. That being said, it's not a great nightlife city even when adjusting for its size. I know people who had lived there in the 80s and 90s and I've been told nightlife there used to be a lot rowdier, and there are a lot of fantastic bands and music groups from DC at the time so there were a lot of different scenes going on, but it's also a pretty common lament that nightlife isn't what it used to be. My experience of DC is only 2010s and onward, and it's not a great nightlife city even though I had/have local friends to take me around, but that doesn't mean it's not a great city.

And yea, it probably is that same user. Same myopia, same aggro.
In regards to nightlife, that seems to be the case for most cities as the younger generations prefer day drinking.
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Old 11-18-2023, 06:08 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,885 posts, read 38,781,820 times
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Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
In regards to nightlife, that seems to be the case for most cities as the younger generations prefer day drinking.
I think there has been a marked difference in how busy the streets are late night in Madrid versus in DC. There's even a big difference within NA between say DC or Chicago or DC and Montreal among others.
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