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I machine translated this to Spanish, then back to English and it became more comprehensible:
A country less rich than the United States, like Spain, has a military unit for emergencies that has a large aamount of firefighting material and when a fire is very large and firefighters can not handle the fire, they call it this specialized unit that acts unfortunately very often, but almost always successful and there have never been so many deaths even remotely.
The US has developed a long tradition of separation of the military and the civilian. To support this, there is the National Guard, a state-level paramilitary force that can be called in to assist civilian emergencies. Also, because it is richer, the US has a better established private sector to be called upon.
Sorry Urdiales, I like you, you are amongst the sweetest people in here... But that punchline of Cebuan killed me
I ll remember this trick Cebuan lol
The problem as I see it is that we shouldn't have millions of people living in what amounts to a desert. There is a reason that most of Southern California and Arizona was sparsely populated until massive water transfers were engineered. As a Northeasterner I resent the subsidies for those projects, and for the funding of an Interstate Highway network on our dime.
New York and New Jersey got remarkably little aid for Hurricane Sandy, and that was a very rare natural disaster for this area. In general, much of the Northeast has very few natural disasters, which is why it was among the first thickly settled parts of the U.S.
Paradise, CA is not in the desert nor is it in Southern California. It's over 100 miles north of San Francisco and gets an average of 58 inches of rain a year.
Again, try to understand that in California, no matter how much rain may fall in a certain location annually, there is a very prolonged dry season. There is normally plenty of water in Northern California for the needs of people, but the vegetation dries out over the summer.
Are you saying that people shouldn't live there?
I'm saying that a major fire season is a risk that needs to be priced into insurance and thus the local cost of living. And that may make it less attractive to live there.
I'm a lifelong resident of Southern California. Anyone who thinks the recent wildfires were so destructive because the state of California and/or the USA lacks adequate firefighting capability just does not understand the geography and climatic conditions.
My sister-in-law's sister (that is, my brother's wife's sister) has lived for many years in Paradise, CA. The fire came suddenly and almost without warning. She and her husband had no time to save anything, and barely made it out alive. They had to drive though the flames to escape.
Unfortunately, many people were unable to escape and died in the flames. "Stubbornly refusing to evacuate" was not part of the scenario for most. You have far more warning of a hurricane than such a fire.
It's shameful how quick people from other countries are to blame a severe natural disaster on flaws in the American character.
I don't think the O/P was trying to point out a "flaw in the American character" by asking his question about the apparent inability to suppress such fires. His confusion is understandable when considered as he explains it.
Your own President does far more of that "shameful" behaviour than you'll be seeing from foreigners.
I for one believe there should be no special scorn attached to living in a particular place unless you build your chalet at the base of the largest snow capped valley with a historical habit of growing a cornice and subsequent avalanches. Then you might be able to question the sanity but in a place like California that might go many decades without fires in particular areas, not so much.
Unless and until we understand the earth is only so big and people continue to propagate, chosen places to live are going to get even more risky.
The people living in California deserve no criticism for having chosen to live there.
My scorn would be reserved for an outfit like FEMA that still hasn't gotten their act together when it comes to evacuees having to camp out in Walmart parking lots and living in their cars.
I lived in California and have witnessed some fires(not as bad as this one), but i could smell the smoke from miles, i mean fire gives three major warnings: smell, ashes, and visible smoke. Even if the fire is advancing quickly how can one not notice any of those?
I don't think the O/P was trying to point out a "flaw in the American character" by asking his question about the apparent inability to suppress such fires. His confusion is understandable when considered as he explains it.
It wasn't the OP I was referring to in that particular comment. It was this guy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan
Americans wave their freedom like a flag, which often includes refusing to obey evacuation recommendations. By contrast, Cuba has barely a death or two decade from natural disasters, which includes plenty of hurricanes. In Cuba, evacuation is not a choice.
Apparently, the people who died in the Camp fire/Paradise got what they had coming because, being typical Americans, they refused to evacuate.
It's hard to believe anyone would seriously compare a hurricane, which can be seen coming for days, to a raging wildfire which might give someone hours or minutes, or in this case no time at all, to get out of the path.
And by the way, "barely a death or two per decade" in Cuba due to natural disasters is just a wee bit of an underestimate. 10 people died in in Cuba in Hurricane Irma in 2017. 11 people died in Hurricane Sandy in 2012. Hurricane Ike in 2008 killed seven. If you're counting, that's already 28 people in less than a decade, not "one or two."
I read today in the news that there are over 1000 people missing ,it seems to me dramatic.-.
I am astonished by the lack of criticism of the failure of the fight against fire-,./
And lack of proposais to make to avoid repeating these disastrous fires .I see much resignation .It seems as if they thought that nothing else could be done in this Forum.-
6750 km^2 burned in Cali this season...2018
750 km^2 in Spain in 2017 (worst in Europe this year)
I'm sorry, these data are strongly biased because 2018 was devastating for Cali, 2017 for Spain seems to be quite a bad year, still 'normal' (nothing like the delta in Cali between 2018 and other years). Average seems to be around 900/1000 km^2 in Cali (last 5 years average) an order of magnitude similar to Spain. I'd like to remind OP that we also usually never hear about American wildfires, because they are well controlled and without victims, like Spain.
But 2018, is 2018. Nearly 10 times worst than the 2017 season in Spain. If this happens in Spain, Spain will happily call the help of USA, and people will die, a lot (like in Cali).
The point is just to show why recent Wildfires in Cali are terrible, a Boeing 747 in the air and thousand of firefighters, that's just not enough at this point. These fires are also as fast as a car, when it's in front of you, pray.
6.75*10^3 km²
7.5*10^2 km²
That's indeed one order of magnitude of difference.
I read today in the news that there are over 1000 people missing ,it seems to me dramatic.-.
I am astonished by the lack of criticism of the failure of the fight against fire-,./
And lack of proposals to make to avoid repeating these disastrous fires .I see much resignation .It seems as if they thought that nothing else could be done in this Forum.-
Many of the missing people are alive and well; they just haven't contacted relatives.
Once a fire like this has started, the ability of any firefighting agency to control it is very limited. Again, I suggest you educate yourself on the topography and climate conditions of these areas so you understand a little better what the firefighters are up against. Criticism is not called for. Everyone here knows they did a heroic job.
If you look at the California forum, you will see several threads regarding changes that could or should be made in the future. It is definitely being discussed, just not in the World forum.
In California I read in the News, that the last fire had 77 dead and was unstoppable.-
The question is , as USA , a country that is so rich, not have an effective civil or military system to overcome ,these disasters with so many dead.-
First of all, we have everything in the world that you can possibly imagine, but California is a state surrounded by huge mountains, one after the other, many separate, plus huge canyons.........The Santa Ana winds are horrific, and continuous.......with such type of terrain, and such difficulties with the wind, it is almost impossible to fly from one mountain on fire, to the next one, therefore, we use helicopters to do the job. Also, there are many Eucalyptus trees, which burn easily due to their oil-based components.
First of all, we have everything in the world that you can possibly imagine, but California is a state surrounded by huge mountains, one after the other, many separate, plus huge canyons.........The Santa Ana winds are horrific, and continuous.......with such type of terrain, and such difficulties with the wind, it is almost impossible to fly from one mountain on fire, to the next one, therefore, we use helicopters to do the job. Also, there are many Eucalyptus trees, which burn easily due to their oil-based components.
People might like to look up the Black Saturday, Victoria, Australia fire from 2009 and see what happens with a combination of heat, wind and Eucalyptus trees. 160 dead. The trees explode and the fires race at unbelievable speeds.
Re insurance after a disaster, we have an apartment in the Whitsundays, North Queensland, which was in the eye of Cyclone Debbie early last year. The insurance on the complex has increased 400% since the event. I imagine this sort of thing happens in most places. No one was killed or injured in that cyclone because of good management, good luck and most importantly, prior warning. Fires generally do not have the prior warning factor and that makes a huge difference.
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