U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-13-2018, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
20,912 posts, read 26,037,014 times
Reputation: 8213

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
That is remarkably low. That's the salary of residents here. Doctors (attendings) here of that age would make 100k+ per year.
Yeah... xander are you sure it's really that low?


If you're talking about the 50K range (even if Euro or USD?) for a doctor, that's actually what most nurses make here.

Last edited by Acajack; 12-13-2018 at 09:04 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-13-2018, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
20,912 posts, read 26,037,014 times
Reputation: 8213
Quote:
Originally Posted by muslim12 View Post
No it is related to religious freedom which is a human right. By official I mean it is not a recognized religion in Italy.
So I looked into this "recognized religion" thing in Italy. It seems like it's a way for a religion to get tax breaks and even public money to help build places of worship (like mosques in their case).


The Italian government actually has a council or ministry that is working towards making Islam a recognized religion in the country. There aren't that many that are recognized as far as I can see: I think there is Catholicism of course and also Judaism, which has been in Italy with larger numbers than Islam - at least historically. (Though there are probably more Muslims than Jews in Italy at the moment.)


Anyway, it's not necessarily a question of religious "freedom". Getting a hand from the government for your religion is not the same as having freedom to practise it.


Now, I am not saying that it's better to be a Muslim in Italy than in the U.S. Or that discrimination does not exist. I think it does in both countries, and yes it's probably worse in Italy than the U.S. on this specific front.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-13-2018, 12:51 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,861 posts, read 18,507,368 times
Reputation: 11396
In spite of the advantages America has, I still got to say it’s easy to fall in love with Italy. So many places there touch your soul. I think Italians understand beauty and esthetics better than perhaps any other people in the world. I have some great memories from the time I spent there. You can imagine how grand it must have been at the height of its wealth and power.

This is why I wouldn’t blame a person if they pine for Italy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-13-2018, 01:10 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,205 posts, read 10,259,919 times
Reputation: 5030
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
..... I wouldn’t blame a person if they pine for Italy ... it’s easy to fall in love with Italy ... You can imagine how grand it must have been at the height of its wealth and power.
Yes, but only those rich guys; those little guys had broken teeth on crusty bread and died young.

Studying the wealth and power of bygone eras is romantic, but, as a practical matter, thank God for the industrial revolution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
... lots of Italians are emigrating nowadays (we are like in the top 10 of country with people emigrating legally), mostly those with degrees.

Wages have been stagnant since 1995 as far as I remember ... we can count on what our relatives saved in the past ...
The result of de-industrialization, yes since around 1995, a deliberate policy choice by Italians of the day, hellbent on preserving their gains of the 1950s-1980s period at the expense of ensuing generations, going on a third now.

Complimenti!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-13-2018, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
6,583 posts, read 4,784,461 times
Reputation: 4338
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post
Wages have been stagnant since 1995 as far as I remember from official statistics but the cost of living, especially in the North, is not that lower than the best regions of Germany or Northern Europe.
The only thing keeping the country afloat is the fact that Italians tend to save much more than other Europeans and Americans, so we can count on what our relatives saved in the past (it amounts to more than 3k billions euros if I remember well).
I am aware of the wage stagnation but 50k for a senior doctor is quite shocking (unless it's like in a small town). European salary can never compete with American salary (except Switzerland, Norway, and Luxembourg) but senior physicians still should make more than 100k. If even they are making 50k, who are the high earners?

Besides, Italy's tax rate is incredibly high. If it's 50k before tax you get like what, 28k after tax?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2018, 07:17 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
11,102 posts, read 7,854,615 times
Reputation: 5393
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellomoon View Post
I am American, living in Italy. To answer your question: NO! America is much better, by far. In America you have higher salaries, you don't have to put up with the crap bureaucracy system and healthcare, it can be an extremely stressful country to live in. There are upsides though: the beauty, the food, the art.
You forgot the corruption.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2018, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
11,102 posts, read 7,854,615 times
Reputation: 5393
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaMay View Post
In what way?

My husband was born in Sicily and we have been to Italy eight times and to the US six times. I think the cultures are very different, Italy being an enmeshed culture where the family has to take on roles which it may not in the US and indeed Australia. Corruption is still rampant in Italy and the unemployment rate is very high. Which is partly why many people are openly racist.

Much as we feel very much at home in Italy we would not want to live there (though to be honest the only country we would have liked to live for some time is the UK) My husband is a golf tragic and it is a pretty minor sport there (he has played there several times) I am not fluent in Italian and would not care to live as a foreigner.

Nevertheless, the food is excellent though it lacks the variety found in many other western countries. The proximity to the rest of Europe would be a big plus for travellers and the climate is not too bad. Though we spent a fortune in tolls this year and I do not drive there as automatics are more expensive.

I guess when people are looking to move to another country they need to weigh up what they are trying to get away from and what they want to gain. That would be quite individual.
I made the mistake (though I enjoyed it) of renting a car in Italy. I drove from Florence to Rome. We planned on dropping off our luggage at a hotel in the Centro then driving out to the airport to drop off the car and take a cab back in. Unfortunately I was not aware of the ZTLs in the city (my fault), I saw the sign but proceeded anyway because I figured we would be in and out quickly. Long story short I ended up driving through several ZTLs and got a violation in the mail of 88 Euro for each ticket. They would not take a check nor a credit card over the phone, in other words, they seemed to try to make it as difficult as possible to pay. This along with multiple other factors soured me on Italy.

Also, People keep talking about the food. As a foodie myself, I was unimpressed. It was good but no better than any Italian restaurant in the US.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2018, 09:47 AM
 
1,582 posts, read 1,391,619 times
Reputation: 1978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Yeah... xander are you sure it's really that low?


If you're talking about the 50K range (even if Euro or USD?) for a doctor, that's actually what most nurses make here.
Surgeons and doctors working in the private healthcare make better, but primari (head of hospital, surgeon-chief, etc) hardly go over 100-150k per year and that's after decades of career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
The result of de-industrialization, yes since around 1995, a deliberate policy choice by Italians of the day, hellbent on preserving their gains of the 1950s-1980s period at the expense of ensuing generations, going on a third now.
Complimenti!
I wish I could enjoy the robbery of young generations, but I belong to the latter so little to rejoice.
Maybe we'll invert the trend, depending on many factors, or maybe we'll slowly die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I am aware of the wage stagnation but 50k for a senior doctor is quite shocking (unless it's like in a small town). European salary can never compete with American salary (except Switzerland, Norway, and Luxembourg) but senior physicians still should make more than 100k. If even they are making 50k, who are the high earners?

Besides, Italy's tax rate is incredibly high. If it's 50k before tax you get like what, 28k after tax?
It's 50k after taxes, let's not be too harsh: my mother earns 3200 € after taxes, a neurosurgeon who is a friend of hers earns approximately 5000 per month, hospital chiefs may reach 8-9000 € per month.
Generally, if you are rich you'll live very well in Italy, probably better than the US overall: infinitely better food, excellent healthcare (and if you have big problems money will always help you), the best cultural and artistic heritage in the world, wonderful landscapes, average-to-good infrastructure (in the North), easy to travel to most of Europe, etc.
If you have a nice career ahead (manager, doctor, designer, engineer etc) and you speak Italian, then you can make a decent life with some luck, though it's much less rewarding, salary-wise, than the US or Australia.
Socially and economically speaking, this country is a time-bomb, how badly it will explode, only time can tell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2018, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Gatineau, Québec
20,912 posts, read 26,037,014 times
Reputation: 8213
OK, it's "after taxes". That makes a pretty big difference. Though these still are not huge salaries for doctors, it's true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-14-2018, 10:11 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,205 posts, read 10,259,919 times
Reputation: 5030
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander.XVII View Post

Socially and economically speaking, this country is a time-bomb, how badly it will explode, only time can tell.

I wish I could enjoy the robbery of young generations, but I belong to the latter so little to rejoice.
Maybe we'll invert the trend, depending on many factors, or maybe we'll slowly die.
I was lucky enough to see the writing on the wall way back in 1997, and the decline has been even steeper than I thought back then, especially since 2011.

It's heart-breaking.

I wish you well, I really do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top