U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-03-2019, 06:52 AM
 
6,376 posts, read 6,264,385 times
Reputation: 2282

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post

My point is China is a 3rd world country so what Chinese people say is true, and there's no 2nd world anymore. There hasn't been one since 1991.
Again, that still has nothing to do with what I said. You failed to make a point.

Who decided "there is no 2nd world anymore since 1991", you? According to wikipedia:
The concept of "Second World" was a construct of the Cold War and the term is still largely used to describe former communist countries that are between poverty and prosperity, many of which are now capitalist states. Subsequently the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition.

I agree the concept of the second world is not commonly used now, but that does not mean it ceased to exist, or the ex second world automatically became third world.

In fact contemporary China is rarely called a third world country in western media now. Usually it is called an emerging power, newly industrialized country, etc. It makes no sense to lump China, Russia and Somalia in the same category. China calls itself a third world country for political reasons.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-03-2019, 11:11 AM
 
12,150 posts, read 6,312,697 times
Reputation: 22311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Subsequently the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition.

I never hear "Second World" these days since it is a cold war-era term.


To me, "Third World" implies that there's almost no middle class and very little basic infrastructure like health care, transportation, electricity, phone/cell/internet, and finance. I guess you could also express it based on rule of law and property rights.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
6,636 posts, read 4,831,100 times
Reputation: 4379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
In fact contemporary China is rarely called a third world country in western media now. Usually it is called an emerging power, newly industrialized country, etc. It makes no sense to lump China, Russia and Somalia in the same category. China calls itself a third world country for political reasons.
"Emerging", "newly industrialised", or "developing" are all just euphemisms for third world.

Among first world countries there are well-off ones (Switzerland, Norway) and no-so-well-off ones (Southern and Eastern Europe), it's the same among third world countries. There are those that are less impoverished (China, Malaysia, Argentina) and then there are the starving ones (North Korea, Somalia), but all are nonetheless third world countries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2019, 01:41 PM
 
14,120 posts, read 12,941,920 times
Reputation: 6562
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
I never hear "Second World" these days since it is a cold war-era term.


To me, "Third World" implies that there's almost no middle class and very little basic infrastructure like health care, transportation, electricity, phone/cell/internet, and finance. I guess you could also express it based on rule of law and property rights.

Well then we can't live without such definition as "second world."
Russia for example definitely has what would fall under the definition of "middle class" - i.e. plenty of educated people living in houses/ apartments with all amenities, with qualified jobs, BUT the big difference with their western counterparts is that they don't live off investments in the market. If anything, their western counterparts ( i.e. middle class) live off their labor ( since it's the West that makes investments overseas, in labor including.)
And THIS brings us back to the square one -


"Third world countries are those whose economies are highly dependent on the economic wealth of the developed countries" ( high debt or not.)

Last edited by erasure; 01-03-2019 at 02:02 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-03-2019, 10:01 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
74,540 posts, read 66,170,563 times
Reputation: 71113
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Russians don't have availability of consumers goods ( made in China?)
Nowhere near the abundance that's found in Southeast Asia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2019, 05:54 AM
 
6,376 posts, read 6,264,385 times
Reputation: 2282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
"Emerging", "newly industrialised", or "developing" are all just euphemisms for third world.

Among first world countries there are well-off ones (Switzerland, Norway) and no-so-well-off ones (Southern and Eastern Europe), it's the same among third world countries. There are those that are less impoverished (China, Malaysia, Argentina) and then there are the starving ones (North Korea, Somalia), but all are nonetheless third world countries.
That is your theory.
The fact is China is seldom called a third world country in western media. I am just telling you the fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2019, 11:57 AM
 
14,120 posts, read 12,941,920 times
Reputation: 6562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Nowhere near the abundance that's found in Southeast Asia.

Ruth, I've never seen Russians *missing* Chinese- made goods ( which they consider subpar comparably to European goods.)
What I DO hear however quite often is that Russians are envious of Chinese who kept their Communist party around and that's why in their ( ignorant) opinion the capitalism in China turned out much better than in Russia. They are pointing at the expansion/improvement of infrastructure over there and growth of wealth among the population.
Little do they know that the major factor here is not the "Communist party," but the fact that back in the nineties the US designated China for being its major workshop, and Russia - for gradual destruction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2019, 12:15 PM
 
6,376 posts, read 6,264,385 times
Reputation: 2282
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Ruth, I've never seen Russians *missing* Chinese- made goods ( which they consider subpar comparably to European goods.)
What I DO hear however quite often is that Russians are envious of Chinese who kept their Communist party around and that's why in their ( ignorant) opinion the capitalism in China turned out much better than in Russia. They are pointing at the expansion/improvement of infrastructure over there and growth of wealth among the population.
Little do they know that the major factor here is not the "Communist party," but the fact that back in the nineties the US designated China for being its major workshop, and Russia - for gradual destruction.
It's oversimplified to say China's development is due to America's decision to make it a workshop.
Japan, Europe, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Southeast Asia were major investors in China too.

Exports to the US are about 20% of China's total exports. It is huge but not dominant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2019, 12:17 PM
 
14,120 posts, read 12,941,920 times
Reputation: 6562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
It's oversimplified to say China's development is due to America's decision to make it a workshop.
Japan, Europe, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Southeast Asia were major investors in China too.

Exports to the US are about 20% of China's total exports. It is huge but not dominant.

Are you familiar with Wal-Mart and what it did to American economy?
So here lies your answer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-04-2019, 01:10 PM
 
6,376 posts, read 6,264,385 times
Reputation: 2282
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Are you familiar with Wal-Mart and what it did to American economy?
So here lies your answer.
I live in Boston area and the nearest Wal-Mart is like 30 miles away.
Even if you are from the Midwest, there are other supermarkets such as Meijer, HEB...

That being said, made-in-China certainly changed America, but China does not only depend on US market. That is the logic.
If you visit Africa, the Middle East and Southeast Asia, you will see Chinese influences are there too. Americans tend to overestimate themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top