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Panama could work, though it's not militantly atheist.
Maybe some of the Caribbean tax havens?
I think Taiwan too. I'd say it's more atheist than China in reality.
Taiwan is not atheist at all. Most people would believe in random deities for love or for wealth or for passing exams and whatnot, and there is an abundance of (backwards) Chinese folklore religious practices that are still extremely prevalent like burning ghost money. There are also many buddhists and cult followers. It's one of the cult hotspots in the world because of how tolerant the society and the government is w/r religiosity.
I'm American as well and to be honest, when I was looking at EU countries to move to, Portugal and Italy were also high on my list. Ultimately, I chose Spain because the language is more useful world-wide than Portuguese, I had been here several times, and I already had friends here. The country is also a bit larger and offers a bit more geographically, as well as more large cities, but that's not to say it wouldn't be easy to take trips all around Spain if you moved to Portugal.
I've been around Portugal several times, but have never lived there so I can't speak for everything, but it seems to me that day-to-day life and society in Portugal and Spain are quite similar. Portugal is also a bit cheaper than Spain, even if you compare the two largest cities, Lisbon and Porto with Madrid and Barcelona - everything - food, drink, groceries, and rent seems to be noticeably cheaper. I am not familiar with the Portuguese public health system or private health care there, but I can't imagine it's any more expensive than in Spain. One other benefit of Portugal over Spain - is that if you're in the hunt for an EU passport, you can qualify for citizenship in Portugal after 5 years of legal residence, whereas in Spain it's 10 years. I'm coming up on 5 years in Spain in a few months and I will finally qualify for permanent residency, which I need to have for 5 years before I can apply to be a citizen, whereas in Portugal I could be applying for my passport already.
Overall, I think the main difference in your day to day life would be the language - apart from that, I think your life would look pretty similar if you were living in Lisbon or Barcelona, I think both would be excellent choices if you are looking for an EU country to move to, so long as you don't have to survive on a Portuguese or Spanish salary. If you are working with US, Australian, British, etc finances and living in one of these countries, you can live very comfortably, and in my opinion, even if it's more expensive to live in Spain or Portugal than say, Ecuador or Thailand, you have all of Europe at your fingertips, which is a HUGE benefit. Both countries have visas for people who have financial means from outside each country or invest in property in each respective country.
super helpful. Thanks!
where did you move from and you envision yourself staying in Spain for a long time now?
where did you move from and you envision yourself staying in Spain for a long time now?
I moved here from the Big Island of Hawaii - before that I lived in Honolulu for a few years. I grew up in a small rustbelt town of 800 near one of the Great Lakes. I also lived in London for a year and went to university in Northern California, so I've lived in quite a range of different places, and Madrid, and even Spain as a whole, offers the best balance of everything in my experience. Now that I'm established here, I don't see myself leaving at least until I have a passport and could come back any time I wanted [if I were to leave]. On one hand, I wouldn't mind living in some other places for a while. My reasons for wanting to live in other places would not be because I don't want to keep living in Spain, rather that I simply wouldn't mind trying some other places out, and learning some other languages. However, if I did, I would have to give up my immigration status in Spain, and start from 0 if I were to come back.
I've also spent a lot of time, money, effort, and energy to get to where I'm at here now, so leaving before I have some long-term security here seems like a waste, especially when I would be completely happy living in this country forever. All of that being said, living here is great, and I am pretty settled in Madrid - my romantic life is a little rocky but I have good friends, a great apartment, a long list of restaurants and bars I know and frequent, and feel as though I fit into society and feel at home here. I firmly believe that my situation here allows me to live the best way I can which aligns with what I want in life, so I don't really have any reason to want to live anywhere else other than what I said above. I don't think I could do better anywhere else, maybe just different. So maybe in a few more years, depending on where my life is at, I'll have an EU passport and that will be an option, or maybe I'll be even more settled here. Who knows.
Last edited by wikiwikirunner; 07-21-2020 at 11:40 AM..
Now that I'm established here, I don't see myself leaving at least until I have a passport and could come back any time I wanted [if I were to leave].
Congrats on almost reaching PR and well, being halfway to citizenship! What is Spain's tax rate compared to the US? And they tax residents on all foreign income, right?
Congrats on almost reaching PR and well, being halfway to citizenship! What is Spain's tax rate compared to the US? And they tax residents on all foreign income, right?
Thanks! Yes, Spain does, however it's a bit convoluted (as all international accounting things are). First off - with my situation, all of my income (at least for now) is foreign, that's how I qualified for my visa in the first place - so I'd be paying taxes on it somewhere anyway. Second, due to both the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and the tax treaty between the USA, I don't have to pay Federal income tax in the USA, and the amount of social security tax I pay in Spain is deducted from the self-employment tax I'd pay in the USA.
Spain has a graduated system similar to that of the USA - you can read more about it here. There are also some additional self employment taxes, and taxes in certain Autonomous communities. At first glance the brackets look slightly higher than those in the USA, but you also get a lot more benefits for paying taxes here - Spaniards aren't paying insane health insurance premiums or student loans on top of tax. Capital gains are taxed at a flat rate of 19%. VAT is 21%, but it's bundled into the price of the item here (as with almost every other country on the planet), so you don't really think about it, and goods are cheaper here than in the USA anyway.
I can't find the spreadsheet for the life of me anywhere, but last year around tax season I crunched the numbers and I paid 3% or 4% less overall in Spain than I would have paid if I was still a resident of Hawaii - and of course that includes the use of the national health system, I could go get a Master's Degree at a Spanish university for €2,000-€3,000, I can collect unemployment and [if I had a pregnant wife] take maternity leave (I'm not sure of the exact amount I or my supposed wife could take - I've never looked into it because I don't have a wife and she is definitely not pregnant). I actually feel as though I receive some benefits for paying taxes here, so not only am I paying less than I'd pay in the USA, I get a lot in return. The healthcare alone is a HUGE benefit (I linked some articles about the Spanish health care system in an earlier post). I pay for a private policy on the side which costs me about €35 per month - no deductible.
In a nutshell, the amount of tax you pay here might be a little more, or it might be a little less than what you'd pay in the USA, but you get a lot more in return, and you're not shelling out exhorbinant amounts of money for health care on top of the tax you pay. That, coupled with the lower cost of living here, and I'd be very surprised if you didn't come out ahead financially.
Here. But bring lots of money as the cost of living is sky high.
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but I have good friends, a great apartment, a long list of restaurants and bars I know and frequent, and feel as though I fit into society and feel at home here. I firmly believe that my situation here allows me to live the best way I can which aligns with what I want in life, so I don't really have any reason to want to live anywhere else other than what I said above. I don't think I could do better anywhere else, maybe just different. So maybe in a few more years, depending on where my life is at, I'll have an EU passport and that will be an option, or maybe I'll be even more settled here. Who knows.
