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Old 02-15-2021, 08:34 AM
 
169 posts, read 27,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaMay View Post
The above post is listing total numbers of people. Australia has a population of 25 million, less than both California and Texas.

Most of us have a diverse background. But I am not sure why this is regarded as so important. I suspect the OP is once again, our many times rebranded poster who has a need to claim the US is superior in every aspect of everything.
Ignoring your second paragraph, your first sentence is utterly thoughtless. Yes, Marisa: again, how do you think the USA's population got so large?!

Total numbers of people matter, in this sense - when you have sufficiently high numbers of ancestral groups ranging into the millions in America (for, like, 50+ of them) you have a larger whole. The laughable statement that "but, the USA is just so much larger in population than Australia!" - YES! That's the point! It got that large because of immigration and ethnic mixing!
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:35 AM
 
169 posts, read 27,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff View Post
Well at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, there are many more ethnicities and cultures than African and "Latino".

These threads continue to highlight the fact that many people do not understand relative and absolute numbers.
Which you obviously don't

He listed European, Asian, and Latin American ethnicities above, and you just bizarrely ignored that. Like, huh? Are you dodging that reality?
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:43 AM
 
169 posts, read 27,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
The answer to OP's question is: Yes, the United States of America is the most diverse country in the World.

All the people cherry picking random demographics highlight the inanity of denying this: "But, but how can America be so diverse if Australia has more Bahaii Bosniaks ages 47-53?" The fact that people have to cherry pick tells you all you need to know about the weakness of their argument.

Somebody here keeps arguing that Australia is more diverse because, get this, it is 2% Muslim instead of 1% like the U.S. (or something laughably ridiculous like that). As if that negates everything else:

USA:

African Americans: 46,713,850 (incl. sizable Egyptian, Ethiopian, Nigerian, Somali populations)
Asian Americans: 20,916,028
- Chinese: 5,143,982
- Indians: 3,852,293
- Japanese: 773,714
- Koreans: 2,546,982
- Taiwanese: 900,595
- Vietnamese: 2,162,610
European Americans: 243,832,540 (including those who classify as White and Latino)
- British: 72,065,000
- Dutch: 4,533,617
- French: 10,329,465
- German: 44,164,758
- Greek: 1,273,628
- Irish: 31,517,030
- Italian: 17,063,646
- Polish: 9,152,819
- Portuguese: 1,373,147
- Russian: 2,611,496
- Scandinavian: 10,931,991
- Spanish: 10,017,244
- Ukrainian: 976,314
Latino Americans: 60,481,746
- Colombian: 1,237,606
- Cuban: 2,381,565
- Dominican: 2,082,857
- Ecuadorian: 717,995
- Guatemalan: 1,524,743
- Honduran: 963,930
- Mexican: 37,186,361
- Peruvian: 684,345
- Salvadoran: 2,306,774
- Venezuelan: 484,445

The U.S. has as many Latinos now than Australia and Canada (combined) have people.

African Population:
Australia: 380,000
Canada: 1,198,540
USA: 46,713,850

Latino Population:
Australia: 179,951
Canada: 447,325
USA: 60,481,746

How diverse could Australia and Canada possibly be with such low numbers as those above? Australia has fewer Blacks than just the city of Baltimore. Canada has fewer Blacks than Prince George's County + Memphis.

In terms of Latinos, Australia has less Latinos than the non-descript city of Laredo, Texas. Canada's Latino population is HALF of just Hidalgo County, Texas. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the U.S. outclasses and outshines on diversity.
Sorry, correcting some of your higher estimates for the various ethnicities

Looking at Wikipedia I have:

1.4 million Japanese
34 million British
3 million Greeks
40 million Irish
10 million Poles
3 million Russians
11 million Scandinavians
1 million Ukrainians
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Old 02-15-2021, 08:47 AM
 
169 posts, read 27,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I think the argument is that Diversity can come in many forms of which race is just one. and most cannot be calculated by Math alone.

Though I do not know how many times it needs to be said, Hispanic is not considered a race by virtually anyone, including the US Bureau of Statistics (Note the White alone % in the link Below). New Zealand is about 70% white using this same definition , Canada is about 75%, and Australia is somewhere between 75-77%, using Aboriginal/Ancestry data (Australia does not collect race data on is population outside Aboriginal).

Though yes the white US population is very diverse and far more so than Australia, but then again Malaysia is also very diverse, even if it is mostly Asian.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...e/US/IPE120219
Hispanic and Latino is an ethnic category - but it is considered a race to anyone who knows that they tend to be heavily Mestizo, which you really wouldn't know, living in Australia.

You're lecturing Americans on the fact that "no one considers Hispanic a race" when no other country outside the US really gets sufficient enough Latin American immigration to bother even asking that question in a census, or to have any experience with that.
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Old 02-15-2021, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
1,035 posts, read 895,578 times
Reputation: 1390
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicinterest View Post
I'm recognizing ethnic diversity in a given country. All I'm looking at are proportions and solid numbers of ethnic diasporas in given countries. I don't care about how that manifests culturally, and how exactly people in a given country choose to express that identity or not. This is unique to each immigrant society, and most societies actually do have histories of integration and assimilation per diaspora group.

But considering cultural manifestation of various ethnicities is not a requirement of merely examining the ethnic makeup and diversity of a nation. You're shifting the discussion.
I’m not shifting the discussion, but emphasizing that ancestry doesn’t mean ethnicity, which is the mistake you’ve committed in the previous post.

Some people think of ethnicity as a fixed unit that stays the same regardless of the migrations of their descendants, as if everyone had some distinctive and unique genetic firm that roughly corresponds to the countries existing in the XX century.

Germany itself is a relatively new country which used to be a conglomerate of nations forming a confederation. The perceived monolithic unit is a product of generations of amalgamation of different cultures and peoples into a major one. Furthermore, and as it happened in Europe for centuries, there were a lot of people moving between countries, kingdoms, feuds or whatever they were.

If there is a community somewhere in the Americas or Australia conformed by people that have great-grandparents that came from 14 different European countries, but all the descendants natively speak the same language and broadly participate in the cultural activities, you don’t have a diverse community, but a very monolithic one.

Of course the USA is far from being monolithic – it is indeed a very diverse country, but this common misunderstanding of ancestry meaning ethnicity is very common, not only in the USA, but everywhere immigration was an important part of their history.

There was a very good poster, albeit a bit belligerent (to be fair, he was a bit alone in the discussion), whose username was WestPreussen, who made very clear points about this topic: https://www.city-data.com/forum/worl...necessary.html

This short post of him expresses the concept very clearly: The most confusing thing about this whole thing with italian ethnicity in America is that they say that language and culture does not matter but just "italian blood" matters. But by that logic shouldn't they claim greek "ethnicity" instead of italian considering that majority of southern italians (the ones that immigrated to US)are descendants of greeks?


Quote:
Originally Posted by magicinterest View Post
Hispanic and Latino is an ethnic category - but it is considered a race to anyone who knows that they tend to be heavily Mestizo, which you really wouldn't know, living in Australia.

You're lecturing Americans on the fact that "no one considers Hispanic a race" when no other country outside the US really gets sufficient enough Latin American immigration to bother even asking that question in a census, or to have any experience with that.

Saying that Hispanic and/or Latino are ethnic categories or even a de facto race (which is ridiculous) is pretty much the same as saying that Americans are an ethnic category or even a single de facto race –hence a monolithic country. So you should choose between saying that Latinos aren’t an ethnic category but a load of peoples from different Amerindian, European, African and even Asian backgrounds, OR that as Danielsa had stated, that “assimilation removes diversity” and neither Latin American countries or the USA are really THAT diverse.

It’s as if I classified ethnic groups in my country as White, Indigenous, Mixed, Asian, African and Anglos, the Anglos being the people who natively speak English, be them white Americans, black Americans, Australians, Jamaicans, etc.

Last edited by Mhc1985; 02-15-2021 at 10:44 AM..
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Old 02-15-2021, 11:32 AM
 
169 posts, read 27,207 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhc1985 View Post
I’m not shifting the discussion, but emphasizing that ancestry doesn’t mean ethnicity, which is the mistake you’ve committed in the previous post.

Some people think of ethnicity as a fixed unit that stays the same regardless of the migrations of their descendants, as if everyone had some distinctive and unique genetic firm that roughly corresponds to the countries existing in the XX century.

Germany itself is a relatively new country which used to be a conglomerate of nations forming a confederation. The perceived monolithic unit is a product of generations of amalgamation of different cultures and peoples into a major one. Furthermore, and as it happened in Europe for centuries, there were a lot of people moving between countries, kingdoms, feuds or whatever they were.

If there is a community somewhere in the Americas or Australia conformed by people that have great-grandparents that came from 14 different European countries, but all the descendants natively speak the same language and broadly participate in the cultural activities, you don’t have a diverse community, but a very monolithic one.

Of course the USA is far from being monolithic – it is indeed a very diverse country, but this common misunderstanding of ancestry meaning ethnicity is very common, not only in the USA, but everywhere immigration was an important part of their history.

There was a very good poster, albeit a bit belligerent (to be fair, he was a bit alone in the discussion), whose username was WestPreussen, who made very clear points about this topic: https://www.city-data.com/forum/worl...necessary.html

This short post of him expresses the concept very clearly: The most confusing thing about this whole thing with italian ethnicity in America is that they say that language and culture does not matter but just "italian blood" matters. But by that logic shouldn't they claim greek "ethnicity" instead of italian considering that majority of southern italians (the ones that immigrated to US)are descendants of greeks?




Saying that Hispanic and/or Latino are ethnic categories or even a de facto race (which is ridiculous) is pretty much the same as saying that Americans are an ethnic category or even a single de facto race –hence a monolithic country. So you should choose between saying that Latinos aren’t an ethnic category but a load of peoples from different Amerindian, European, African and even Asian backgrounds, OR that as Danielsa had stated, that “assimilation removes diversity” and neither Latin American countries or the USA are really THAT diverse.

It’s as if I classified ethnic groups in my country as White, Indigenous, Mixed, Asian, African and Anglos, the Anglos being the people who natively speak English, be them white Americans, black Americans, Australians, Jamaicans, etc.
It's a way to categorize people from the Latin-American region - which have immigrated in significant enough numbers to the US to be a culturally distinct minority.

There are racial connotations to the Latino label, as many Latinos in the US are Mexican's of Mestizo heritage - they have noticeably different racial features.

It can also be true that the US government treats Hispanic and Latino as an ethnic category, not a racial one.

It's not the same thing as saying "Americans are an ethnic category". That's a continental identity vs a national one.

Your first block of text is all over the place. One, you can choose to recognize ethnicity alone as a metric of diversity - I'm not measuring linguistic diversity here. You only have to have Italian ancestors to be considered of Italian ethnicity. It doesn't just disappear because you're American. Disregarding this completely and trying to assert that America is ethnically homogeneous at the same time does not make sense.

Southern Italians (meaning Sicilians) have their own cultural identity. Sicilian is a sufficiently old ethnic identity. It is not recognized as Greek culture. This gets into the whole "But Britain had tons of immigration - what about the Romans and the Anglo-Saxons!" assertion. It's laughable.
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Old 02-15-2021, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
3,988 posts, read 6,001,141 times
Reputation: 3217
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicinterest View Post
Hispanic and Latino is an ethnic category - but it is considered a race to anyone who knows that they tend to be heavily Mestizo, which you really wouldn't know, living in Australia.

You're lecturing Americans on the fact that "no one considers Hispanic a race" when no other country outside the US really gets sufficient enough Latin American immigration to bother even asking that question in a census, or to have any experience with that.
Sigh, ..... I am very aware of the Mestizo population in the US, it is why i did not directly quote the 76% in the link, in my post. The 59% quoted, assumes every Hispanic in the US is of another race, and there is no way you could ever say people like Cameron Diaz or Charlie Sheen are anything other than white European.

I am lecturing you on what someone out side the US thinks in a WORLD forum, if you want to post on a world forum, you need to appreciate perspectives from around the world are different.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 02-15-2021 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 02-15-2021, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Australia
1,976 posts, read 847,567 times
Reputation: 3841
Just to add, as I have no intention of further continuing this discussion, that our government only collects data on whether people identify as Aboriginal or Torres Strait islanders. Otherwise, people can identify their heritage, which is often multiple. Heritage is not strictly defined on the census forms, from what I remember from three years ago.
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Old 02-15-2021, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
3,988 posts, read 6,001,141 times
Reputation: 3217
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicinterest View Post
Ignoring your second paragraph, your first sentence is utterly thoughtless. Yes, Marisa: again, how do you think the USA's population got so large?!

Total numbers of people matter, in this sense - when you have sufficiently high numbers of ancestral groups ranging into the millions in America (for, like, 50+ of them) you have a larger whole. The laughable statement that "but, the USA is just so much larger in population than Australia!" - YES! That's the point! It got that large because of immigration and ethnic mixing!
I said in my very first post reply this thread the reason why the US got so large is because it started its Immigration and ethic mixing a good 200 years earlier than Australia did, and the reason for that is is that the US is far closer to Europe, was "Discovered" far earlier and was far more assessable before the age of modern jet airliners etc, the US is also geographically far more able to support a large population than Australia is.

In percentage terms Australia has been by far the fastest growing western nation in the world since the end of WW1, between 1950 and 2018 for instance, the US population went from 157 million to about 330 Million an increase of 110%, Australia went from 8.1 Million to 25.7 Million in the same period, an increase of 215%.

What is driving all the growth in Australia? - Immigration and ethnic mixing.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 02-15-2021 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:34 PM
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
21,927 posts, read 10,203,964 times
Reputation: 21478
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
Sigh, ..... I am very aware of the Mestizo population in the US, it is why i did not directly quote the 76% in the link, in my post. The 59% quoted, assumes every Hispanic in the US is of another race, and there is no way you could ever say people like Cameron Diaz or Charlie Sheen are anything other than white European.

I am lecturing you on what someone out side the US thinks in a WORLD forum, if you want to post on a world forum, you need to appreciate perspectives from around the world are different.
To add, most Hispanic people in the US self identity as white, racially speaking.
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