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View Poll Results: What city is the "Education Capital of the World"
Boston 19 51.35%
London 12 32.43%
Other 6 16.22%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Yesterday, 01:04 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
London has a lot of research financing from the Medical Research Council, National Institute for Health Research, numerous medical charities and the bio-pharma industry, as for research hospitals London has numerous large teaching and research hospitals.

The Wellcome Trust which has it's HQ not far from Kings Cross, has a medical research endowment of around $36 Billion USD.

As for research, very few places in the world can match the UK Golden Triangle, and in terms of the Bay area it now has it's own problems with companies choosing to leave because of new laws, taxes and the cost of living.



I made it patently clear that ITER was an international project and not even a European one, and used examples of such projects to show that there is a lot of research outside of the US, although you don't seem to have taken this on board.

The UK will continue to partner countries in relation to science and technology, and most of these projects are nothing to do with the EU, indeed Switzerland which is a bio-pharma and finance powerhouse thrives outside of the EU, and is even home to CERN. The ESA eve gave Canada special status as a Cooperating State, and has even worked closely with Russia in the past. Whilst the European Telescope projects are an international collaboration and re governed by bodies such as the ESO council and not the EU.

The UK will also now build closer ties with other nations including through the creation of CANZUK and our relationship with Switzerland is now closer than ever, as well as with Japan, especially now that we seek membership of the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP).

Right, I've said that Beijing is also very prominent when it comes to research. One thing to realize is that just because the Bay Area is overwhelmingly ahead of London by almost any metric when talking about research doesn't mean that the majority of the world's research occurs within the Bay Area. The overall amount of R&D, patents, papers published, etc. are so diffused across several countries that it's impossible for any place to stake out a particularly large plurality. It's only when you're doing something like a comparison on a city basis that you see that there ones that stick out for being ahead, but the fact is there's a very, very long tail of other cities that easily makes up the bulk of research institutions.


The Bay Area has been losing huge amounts of companies for about the last half century or so. There are countless companies that have been spun out and relocated from the Bay Area, though you're right that we're seeing another spike of these as was seen in the 90s. It's not guaranteed, but the Bay Area company generally just keeps on churning more and more companies.


The UK will absolutely need to form new trade agreements though they mind find themselves with fairly little bargaining power--we'll have to see how that works out for research. Regardless, the UK and London don't have that much of a role in ITER. It'll be interesting to see if the UK's willing to further extend funding for JET on its own.


Agreed on Switzerland, am friends with former faculty at ETH Zurich and was very impressed not just with that, but with Swiss research institutions. Switzerland is also very important as a prominent vacation spot for Europeans as well as along very important north-south and east-west axes for the transportation of goods and people, and with a pretty functional multilingual government. It's incredible what they've gotten done, though they're arguably also a bit geographically blessed. In regards to ITER, Switzerland is actually a member of F4E and is actually strongly involved in the project.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; Yesterday at 01:14 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
16,785 posts, read 6,151,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Right, I've said that Beijing is also very prominent when it comes to research. One thing to realize is that just because the Bay Area is overwhelmingly ahead of London by almost any metric when talking about research doesn't mean that the majority of the world's research occurs within the Bay Area. The overall amount of R&D, patents, papers published, etc. are so diffused across several countries that it's impossible for any place to stake out a particularly large plurality. It's only when you're doing something like a comparison on a city basis that you see that there ones that stick out for being ahead, but the fact is there's a very, very long tail of other cities that easily makes up the bulk of research institutions.


The Bay Area has been losing huge amounts of companies for about the last half century or so. There are countless companies that have been spun out and relocated from the Bay Area, though you're right that we're seeing another spike of these as was seen in the 90s. It's not guaranteed, but the Bay Area company generally just keeps on churning more and more companies.


The UK will absolutely need to form new trade agreements though they mind find themselves with fairly little bargaining power--we'll have to see how that works out for research. Regardless, the UK and London don't have that much of a role in ITER. It'll be interesting to see if the UK's willing to further extend funding for JET on its own.


Agreed on Switzerland, am friends with former faculty at ETH Zurich and was very impressed not just with that, but with Swiss research institutions. Switzerland is also very important as a prominent vacation spot for Europeans as well as along very important north-south and east-west axes for the transportation of goods and people, and with a pretty functional multilingual government. It's incredible what they've gotten done, though they're arguably also a bit geographically blessed. In regards to ITER, Switzerland is actually a member of F4E and is actually strongly involved in the project.
The UK is also involved in ITER and could join F4E if it wanted, as Switzerland is also a non-EU member, and has no plans to join.

London has one of the largest concentrations of universities and higher education institutions in the world. It has 40 higher education institutions (not counting foreign Universities with London branches) and has a University student population of more than 400,000. Oxford and Cambridge have a further 100,000 students, and there are other universities in the Oxford - Cambridge Arc area.

As for the Bay area it covers 6,900 square miles compared to Greater London's 607 square miles.

London student life in numbers - Study London

Last edited by Brave New World; Yesterday at 03:02 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 04:30 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The UK is also involved in ITER and could join F4E if it wanted, as Switzerland is also a non-EU member, and has no plans to join.

London has one of the largest concentrations of universities and higher education institutions in the world. It has 40 higher education institutions (not counting foreign Universities with London branches) and has a University student population of more than 400,000. Oxford and Cambridge have a further 100,000 students, and there are other universities in the Oxford - Cambridge Arc area.

As for the Bay area it covers 6,900 square miles compared to Greater London's 607 square miles.

London student life in numbers - Study London

Right! London is much better fit for being called an education capital than SF Bay Area! Where Bay Area excels is research, but research is not equivalent to education.
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Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Right! London is much better fit for being called an education capital than SF Bay Area! Where Bay Area excels is research, but research is not equivalent to education.
In terms of education, London is widely acknowledged as a leading city, and Oxford/Cambridge are also highly respected education centres.

As for Tech, we are a leading European Tech centre, and Silicon Valley companies have opened offices in London, and the Golden Triangle area, as well as other areas in the UK. Reading near London is also home to a large tech hub.

Silicon Valley’s Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge - The New York Times (2018)

2020 in review: UK tech sector shows growth and resilience - Tech Nation
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Old Yesterday, 04:57 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California
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Boston.
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Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
In terms of education, London is widely acknowledged as a leading city, and Oxford/Cambridge are also highly respected education centres.

As for Tech, we are a leading European Tech centre, and Silicon Valley companies have opened offices in London, and the Golden Triangle area, as well as other areas in the UK. Reading near London is also home to a large tech hub.

Silicon Valley’s Giants Take Their Talent Hunt to Cambridge - The New York Times (2018)

2020 in review: UK tech sector shows growth and resilience - Tech Nation

Right, definitely London leads on education, but I don't understand why you want to go back to talking about tech which is obviously not London's strongest suit. You're talking about SV giants sitting up side operations elsewhere which they do around the world, but for the most part they're based in Silicon Valley, and Silicon Valley is actually in the SF Bay Area.



While London is a leading tech center for Europe, the Bay Area is one for the entire world including the rest of North America and East Asia which all have many prominent tech centers. Your infograph talks about the UK having 80 new tech unicorns, and while I'm sure a lot of those are in London, the Bay Area has over double that. The UK as a whole had $15 billion (is that a dollar sign as in using USD or is that in pounds) raised for UK tech companies, and I'm sure a lot of it went to London-based companies, but Bay Area companies in 2020 raised about $61 billion USD in just venture capital. Even if you did a conversion and that $ was in error, 1 pound doesn't convert anywhere close to over 4 USD. I'm not sure you're quite understanding the scale difference here.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; Yesterday at 05:14 PM..
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Old Today, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Right, definitely London leads on education, but I don't understand why you want to go back to talking about tech which is obviously not London's strongest suit. You're talking about SV giants sitting up side operations elsewhere which they do around the world, but for the most part they're based in Silicon Valley, and Silicon Valley is actually in the SF Bay Area.



While London is a leading tech center for Europe, the Bay Area is one for the entire world including the rest of North America and East Asia which all have many prominent tech centers. Your infograph talks about the UK having 80 new tech unicorns, and while I'm sure a lot of those are in London, the Bay Area has over double that. The UK as a whole had $15 billion (is that a dollar sign as in using USD or is that in pounds) raised for UK tech companies, and I'm sure a lot of it went to London-based companies, but Bay Area companies in 2020 raised about $61 billion USD in just venture capital. Even if you did a conversion and that $ was in error, 1 pound doesn't convert anywhere close to over 4 USD. I'm not sure you're quite understanding the scale difference here.
In terms of higher education in the UK, you won't find all the Liberal Arts Colleges you find in the US or Universities linked to any religion such as Catholic institutions, and nearly all universities are public sector, and most traditional universities have an emphasis on STEM dating back to the industrial revolution,, and usually incorporate large NHS Teaching hospitals and have numerous other partnerships.

Whilst more modern Universities tend to be more vocational and offer a lot of courses related to nursing, teaching, social work, business etc.

The traditional research Universities formed the Russell Group, which is very STEM orientated.

Our universities - Russell Group

In terms of London the area around the British Library has become a hub for tech, along with Old Street Roundabout and Est London Tech city,

Plans unveiled for 800,000 sq ft British Library extension - Construction Enquirer

As for UK tech, the website Tech Nation is a useful tool - Tech Nation

In terms of the Bay Area has already pointed out, it's a vast area and I am sure it has lots of tech companies.

Last edited by Brave New World; Today at 06:05 AM..
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Old Today, 04:33 PM
 
Location: In the heights
28,615 posts, read 27,816,079 times
Reputation: 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
In terms of higher education in the UK, you won't find all the Liberal Arts Colleges you find in the US or Universities linked to any religion such as Catholic institutions, and nearly all universities are public sector, and most traditional universities have an emphasis on STEM dating back to the industrial revolution,, and usually incorporate large NHS Teaching hospitals and have numerous other partnerships.

Whilst more modern Universities tend to be more vocational and offer a lot of courses related to nursing, teaching, social work, business etc.

The traditional research Universities formed the Russell Group, which is very STEM orientated.

Our universities - Russell Group

In terms of London the area around the British Library has become a hub for tech, along with Old Street Roundabout and Est London Tech city,

Plans unveiled for 800,000 sq ft British Library extension - Construction Enquirer

As for UK tech, the website Tech Nation is a useful tool - Tech Nation

In terms of the Bay Area has already pointed out, it's a vast area and I am sure it has lots of tech companies.

Yea, I think it's great that a lot of countries have it so their top schools are public universities and are relatively affordable without a scholarship or some luck. It does seem like the Northeast of the US especially seems to put a much heavier emphasis on private universities, and I wonder how much that's contributed to some of the ridiculous tuition prices in the US.

The Bay Area does cover a lot of ground officially as the US census uses counties as their basic units, but all of the major companies (save for Chevron which isn't a tech company) and the three primary research universities are based in the thin ring of urbanized land around the lower bay which covers an area about the size of London in land area (not the square mile of the city of London, but the 607 square mile that is Greater London that is more generally referred to as London), but instead of a blob it's a donut or U with the bay in the middle. The metropolitan area does officially cover a lot of area, but most of that is undeveloped / preserved or relatively undeveloped mountainous areas. It's really apparent on satellite maps where you see San Francisco at the peninsula tip as the top-left part of the U going down to San Jose and going back up on the east side of the bay to Richmond as the top-right part of the U. It's about the same land area as London, but squeezed into a U.

As in aside, what do people in the UK consider London's metropolitan area? As I understand it, London is usually used as shorthand for Greater London and not specifically to the Square Mile City of London, and no one bats an eye if you live in Harroww and say you live in London as all of Greater London is referred to as London, is that right? If so, what do people use to refer to the London metropolitan area that's outside of the Greater London ceremonial county? Is there a name for that and for the larger area?

Last edited by OyCrumbler; Today at 05:18 PM..
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