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Old 02-27-2021, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,900 posts, read 13,123,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Oh definitely a matter of taste. It's also not like NYC wins this category globally--I mean, I feel like Shanghai makes NYC feel downright quaint.


However, it's what the OP stated and he essentially misunderstood things, misspoke, or just outright lied. The truth is New York is significantly larger and denser than London.
Geographically London is the bigger actual city, however New York doesn't count a lot of urban areas on it's doorstep such as Jersey City or parts of Long Island etc.

Both cities have there busy shopping, entertainment and financial districts.

However whilst NYC has it's density, London tends to meander, it's ancient streets often dating as far back to the Romans meander all over the place, as do it's maze of alleys and cuts, along with it's walking routes which run through the cities greenery and along it's canals and rivers, which in turn link up to it's green spaces, garden squares, historic graveyards and the cities many historic building. Whilst the numerous pubs on these routes are a good stop off for a quiet pint of beer or something to eat.

It is these areas of calm and tranquillity that are invaluable to city dwellers in order that they maintain their sanity.

In terms of London's green space I posted this earlier on in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World

A lot of London is green space, it's a city with vast parks, indeed it has over 3,000 public parks.

Roughly 47% of Greater London is 'green'; 33% of London is natural habitats within open space according to surveyed habitat information (and an additional 14% is estimated to be vegetated private, domestic garden land.

NYC also has it's green spaces, and such green areas are important in order to keep sane in a large urban environment.

Some areas are more built up, however in terms of skyscrapers this can mean financial districts rather than residential.
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Old 02-27-2021, 06:45 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,920 posts, read 38,847,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Geographically London is the bigger actual city, however New York doesn't count a lot of urban areas on it's doorstep such as Jersey City or parts of Long Island etc.

Both cities have there busy shopping, entertainment and financial districts.

However whilst NYC has it's density, London tends to meander, it's ancient streets often dating as far back to the Romans meander all over the place, as do it's maze of alleys and cuts, along with it's walking routes which run through the cities greenery and along it's canals and rivers, which in turn link up to it's green spaces, garden squares, historic graveyards and the cities many historic building. Whilst the numerous pubs on these routes are a good stop off for a quiet pint of beer or something to eat.

It is these areas of calm and tranquillity that are invaluable to city dwellers in order that they maintain their sanity.

In terms of London's green space I posted this earlier on in this thread.

In no way reasonable way would London be considered the larger city. If you went by technical definitions, then the City of London is about a square mile while the City of New York is much, much larger, but people understand that's not what you're referring to with London.


Regardless, most of us on this forum know well enough that urban areas/metropolitan areas, despite their own issues, are the better comparison.
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Old 02-27-2021, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,900 posts, read 13,123,741 times
Reputation: 19136
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
In no way reasonable way would London be considered the larger city. If you went by technical definitions, then the City of London is about a square mile while the City of New York is much, much larger, but people understand that's not what you're referring to with London.


Regardless, most of us on this forum know well enough that urban areas/metropolitan areas, despite their own issues, are the better comparison.
Greater London is what constitutes the boundaries of London, and it covers 606 sq mi (1,569 km2), with a population of over 9 million people.

The City of London is one of London's two main financial districts, and covers one square mile and has a population of around 10,000 people.

NYC by contrast is 468.19 sq mi (1,212.60 km2) including land and water with a population of around 8.4 million, so London is 138 square miles larger than New York city in terms of the geographic boundaries of each city.


In terms of metro areas, I don't really put that much emphasis on them beyond a cities actual surrounding area and the ease at which people can commute or visit a city.

Some of the US metro area sizes are just laughable, indeed the NYC metropolitan statistical area is around 22 times the size of London at 13,318 sq miles (34,494 km²).

For comparison the entire country of Israel is 8,522 square miles, Belgium is 11,787 square miles, Switzerland is 15,940 square miles, the Netherlands are 16,100 sq miles and Denmark is 16,639 sq miles. Whilst Wales in the UK is 8,005 sq mi, whilst the South East of England region is 7,373 sq mi and the East Anglia region is around 7,382 sq mi

Last edited by Brave New World; 02-27-2021 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:13 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,920 posts, read 38,847,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Greater London is what constitutes the boundaries of London, and it covers 606 sq mi (1,569 km2), with a population of over 9 million people.

The City of London is one of London's two main financial districts, and covers one square mile and has a population of around 10,000 people.

NYC by contrast is 468.19 sq mi (1,212.60 km2) including land and water with a population of around 8.4 million, so London is 138 square miles larger than New York city in terms of the geographic boundaries of each city.

In terms of metro areas, I don't really put that much emphasis on them beyond a cities actual surrounding area and the ease at which people can commute or visit a city.

Some of the US metro area sizes are just laughable, indeed the NYC metro area is around 22 times the size of London at 13,318 sq miles (34,494 km²).

For comparison the entire country of Israel is 8,522 square miles, Belgium is 11,787 square miles, Switzerland is 15,940 square miles, the Netherlands are 16,100 sq miles and Denmark is 16,639 sq miles. Whilst Wales in the UK is 8,005 sq mi, whilst the South East of England region is 7,373 sq mi and the East Anglia region is around 7,382 sq mi.

Right, the City of London is only one square mile, but it doesn't make sense to go just by city boundaries since obviously London is in reference to a larger area than just that.

NYC's metropolitan area as defined by the census is very large--it's something that I mentioned before where urban area definitions have their own issues and the US has particularly large metropolitan areas. However, we've also already broken this down by doing adding smaller contiguous areas where the majority of the population for NYC's metropolitan area is and there is no scenario where for the densest contiguous land area where NYC is less populous or less dense for any given size than London. The London at 606 square miles you're citing only has a larger population due to covering greater land area. Add in 138 square miles from north, east, or west of NYC for the same land area and of course NYC is more populous--because it's in reality a larger city.
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,900 posts, read 13,123,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Right, the City of London is only one square mile, but it doesn't make sense to go just by city boundaries since obviously London is in reference to a larger area than just that.

NYC's metropolitan area as defined by the census is very large--it's something that I mentioned before where urban area definitions have their own issues and the US has particularly large metropolitan areas. However, we've also already broken this down by doing adding smaller contiguous areas where the majority of the population for NYC's metropolitan area is and there is no scenario where for the densest contiguous land area where NYC is less populous or less dense for any given size than London. The London at 606 square miles you're citing only has a larger population due to covering greater land area. Add in 138 square miles from north, east, or west of NYC for the same land area and suddenly NYC's more populous.
London's city boundary is Greater London which is the area the elected Mayor of London is responsible for.

Greater London - Wikipedia

As for the area around London, it has a green belt in order to stop too much urban sprawl, so the metros will be different.

The nearest metro figures, without using the metropolitan combined statistic figures which are pointless, is the New York metro figure covering 3,450.2 sq mi (8,936 km2) which equates to a population of 18,351,295, which I accept.

The extended area known as the London Metropolitan Region or the London Metropolitan Agglomeration, comprises a total area of 8,382 square kilometres (3,236 sq mi) has a population of 14,372,596.

So NYC has the larger metro area, however this mainly relates to Northern New Jersey and

Last edited by Brave New World; 02-27-2021 at 08:47 AM..
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Old 02-27-2021, 08:50 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,920 posts, read 38,847,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
London's city boundary is Greater London which is the area the elected Mayor of London is responsible for.

Greater London - Wikipedia

As for the area around London, it has a green belt in order to stop too much urban sprawl, so the metros will be different.

The nearest metro figures, without using the metropolitan combined statistic figures which are pointless, is the New York metro figure covering 3,450.2 sq mi (8,936 km2) which equates to a population of 18,351,295, which I accept.

The extended area known as the London Metropolitan Region or the London Metropolitan Agglomeration, comprises a total area of 8,382 square kilometres (3,236 sq mi) has a population of 14,372,596.

Right, just as using the City of London's physical boundaries is misguided, so is that of using different metropolitan area definitions of different countries. I agree that apples to apples, NYC is likely larger and more populous.
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,900 posts, read 13,123,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Right, just as using the City of London's physical boundaries is misguided, so is that of using different metropolitan area definitions of different countries. I agree that apples to apples, NYC is likely larger and more populous.
No one is using the city of London boundaries.

Greater London is what is used to define London.

In terms of NYC being larger, the metro area of industrial cities in North Jersey such as Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Elizabeth, and Edison, and their vicinities and parts of Connecticut such as Bridgeport, New Haven, Stamford, Waterbury, Norwalk, and Danbury, and their vicinities.

However the mere size of a city or it's metro do not constitute what makes a city great or cities in the Far East would far our rank both London and NYC.

London has tried to keep some greenery both in the city and in terms of the outskirts, in order that the area doesn't just become one big urban sprawl, and this should be commended and personally I much prefer green belt that breaks up urban sprawl to an outskirts consisting of more sprawl and industrial cities.

London Green Belt Maps

It's also worth pointing out that many of the villages and towns outside of London have rail stations and access in to London is fairly easy on both a regional, national and even international level.

London and South East Rail Services Map

Last edited by Brave New World; 02-27-2021 at 09:16 AM..
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Old 02-27-2021, 09:30 AM
 
Location: In the heights
36,920 posts, read 38,847,379 times
Reputation: 20944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
No one is using the city of London boundaries.

Greater London is what is used to define London.

In terms of NYC being larger, the metro area of industrial cities in North Jersey such as Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, Elizabeth, and Edison, and their vicinities and parts of Connecticut such as Bridgeport, New Haven, Stamford, Waterbury, Norwalk, and Danbury, and their vicinities.

However the mere size of a city or it's metro do not constitute what makes a city great or cities in the Far East would far our rank both London and NYC.

London has tried to keep some greenery both in the city and in terms of the outskirts, in order that the area doesn't just become one big urban sprawl, and this should be commended and personally I much prefer green belt that breaks up urban sprawl to an outskirts consisting of more sprawl and industrial cities.

London Green Belt Maps

It's also worth pointing out that many of the villages and towns outside of London have rail stations and access in to London is fairly easy on both a regional, national and even international level.

London and South East Rail Services Map

Right--it's an illustration of how arbitrary things can be.


I have already stated that size is not what makes a city great, but NYC is realistically the larger city.


I will say though, I myself seem to prefer large cities and I do like London. I also very much like Shanghai and Tokyo.


I wish NYC had better rail service--and most importantly, a nice Crossrail like project to tie together the different commuter rail line.


NYC also has a surprisingly amount of greenery around it as well, though I wish Long Island had kept more of itself preserved from development.
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Old 02-27-2021, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
26,900 posts, read 13,123,741 times
Reputation: 19136
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Right--it's an illustration of how arbitrary things can be.


I have already stated that size is not what makes a city great, but NYC is realistically the larger city.


I will say though, I myself seem to prefer large cities and I do like London. I also very much like Shanghai and Tokyo.


I wish NYC had better rail service--and most importantly, a nice Crossrail like project to tie together the different commuter rail line.


NYC also has a surprisingly amount of greenery around it as well, though I wish Long Island had kept more of itself preserved from development.

NYC is only larger if you add a lot of cities such as Newark in relation to it's metro area, in terms of the city itself it is geographically smaller and also smaller in relation to population.

The main reason for London having a smaller metro is largely down to planned green belts, however London a city of over 9 million, has over 3 million daily commuters and around 20 million foreign visitors per year on average.

As for NYC it's London's sister city and is a fantastic city.

Some London walking routes.

London’s prettiest walks - Time Out (23rd Feb 2021)

Walking - Transport for London (TfL)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcJQqPpjloY

Last edited by Brave New World; 02-27-2021 at 12:42 PM..
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Old 02-27-2021, 12:45 PM
 
Location: In the heights
36,920 posts, read 38,847,379 times
Reputation: 20944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
NYC is only larger if you add a lot of cities such as Newark in relation to it's metro area, in terms of the city itself it is geographically smaller and also in relation to population.

The main reason for London having a smaller metro is largely down to planned green belts, however London a city of over 9 million, has over 3 million daily commuters and around 20 million foreign visitors per year on average.

As for NYC it's London's sister city and is a fantastic city.

Some London walking routes.

London’s prettiest walks - Time Out (23rd Feb 2021)

Walking - Transport for London (TfL)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcJQqPpjloY

Like I said, that's true for city boundaries where NYC are defined to be smaller, but realistically, New York City is a larger city. When London County Council and the County of London covering what's now considered Inner London was essentially replaced by the larger Greater London we know today, the city didn't materially change. The same would be if there was a 6th borough as proposed many times for NYC or a downstate separation as a single New York entity--these don't really suddenly make NYC a larger city even if the official city boundaries have increased.
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