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View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.16%
Israel 148 71.84%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-15-2023, 11:15 AM
 
43,631 posts, read 44,361,055 times
Reputation: 20546

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Quote:
Originally Posted by docyabut View Post
The IDF’s precise and targeted operation against Hamas in the Shifa Hospital is still ongoing.

We can now confirm that incubators, baby food and medical supplies, provided by the IDF, have successfully reached the hospital.


https://www.reuters.com/article/isra...-idINL8N3CG1SJ
The IDF has found weapons at the Al-Shifa hospital:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...al-2023-11-15/
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Old 11-15-2023, 03:50 PM
 
6,037 posts, read 5,946,596 times
Reputation: 3606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
The IDF has found weapons at the Al-Shifa hospital:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...al-2023-11-15/
So no tunnels found under the hospital? Can anything really be believed?
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Old 11-15-2023, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Crooked Pennsylvania
1,292 posts, read 643,584 times
Reputation: 2189
Amazing that 27.84% of C-D posters support Hamas...how far we have fallen..
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Old 11-15-2023, 04:07 PM
 
6,037 posts, read 5,946,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wadd View Post
The Vietcong had a country to hide in, Gaza strip is only a few miles long. But they (more specifically NVA) were of course betting on a lengthening of the war to erode public support in a democratic country. NVA lost every tactical battle they engaged in with the US but won the strategic political battle.

Hamas is betting on the same strategy, but in terms of international support for a cease fire and also to inflame the Arab world and the other Iranian proxies. Obviously they will never gain Israeli citizen sympathy after brutally murdering 1,400 of their population.

Thus Hamas strategy - lengthen the war. Hiding in tunnels, hit and run attacks, and most importantly using their own civilians to hide behind and ensuring the maximum number of civilian casualties is inflicted which they can then blame on Israel. The ironic thing is you and those like you that are sympathetic to the Palestine cause are actually encouraging a lengthening of the war and more death.

I'd suggest it people like me are saving Israel in a sense from itself. Without being hold to account for actions , they may well go more over the top in seeking revenge. Those of us that felt akin to Israel during the early days after the massacre of October 7, have come to question present motives. Isael should not be given carte blanch to destroy Gaza and expect not to be held accountable. It now seems no tunnels were found under the hospital.

You are correct the VC had a nation to hide in . But the tunnel system proved highly effective in that war. The same may apply in a different way perhaps for Gaza.

We must not be swayed from manipulation from either side. Truth is usually the causality in conflict. You may recall the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction lies?
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Old 11-15-2023, 04:12 PM
 
6,037 posts, read 5,946,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-C View Post
Amazing that 27.84% of C-D posters support Hamas...how far we have fallen..
I've never met, nor witnessed any Pro Hamas support to date. No doubt some radicalised Muslims do , but I wonder exactly what posters you have seen actually state?
I have witnessed numerous Pro Palestinian support, some naive, no doubt but never seen or heard Hamas mentioned.
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Old 11-16-2023, 06:04 AM
 
695 posts, read 285,987 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I'd suggest it people like me are saving Israel in a sense from itself. Without being hold to account for actions , they may well go more over the top in seeking revenge. Those of us that felt akin to Israel during the early days after the massacre of October 7, have come to question present motives. Isael should not be given carte blanch to destroy Gaza and expect not to be held accountable. It now seems no tunnels were found under the hospital.

You are correct the VC had a nation to hide in . But the tunnel system proved highly effective in that war. The same may apply in a different way perhaps for Gaza.

We must not be swayed from manipulation from either side. Truth is usually the causality in conflict. You may recall the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction lies?
You see, I think people see this still as some sort of raid, some commando action or limited military action. People are used to these quick strikes by air to a military installation, or by ground by special forces to seize this or that enemy figure, then pull back and it's quickly over. This is none of these, this is a war plain and simple. The goal is to eradicate Hamas. The casus belli is clear and undisputed - the massacre of 1,400 Israeli citizens, the kidnapping of 250 others.

War is never pretty, particularly in a densely packed urban area, combine that with an enemy that is using it's own citizens to hide behind, further combine that with the inability of citizens to flee (I blame Egypt for refusing to open it's borders). In the words of Civil War General Sherman "war is all hell, war is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over". With that being said, I think Israel is doing what it can considering the difficult elements above to minimize civilians casualties while also using tactics to defeat the enemy and limit IDF casualties. They are not specifically targeting civilians to make this war "cruel". It's just difficult, the reality of war. I've mentioned the Fall of Berlin as a comparison battle before, in that battle 125,000 civilians were killed.

In terms of the hospital, they have found weapons and a command center. AK's stashed behind MR machines? That's pretty obvious that Hamas was using it. I know they have found tunnels under a nearby children's hospital and what appeared to be underground rooms where hostages were kept at one point. But the hospital in question now is being resupplied by Israeli medical supplies, combine that with these humanitarian evacuation corridors and aid coming in...doesn't sound like a force that is given carte blanche to destroy Gaz's civilian population does it?
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Old 11-16-2023, 06:07 AM
 
695 posts, read 285,987 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I've never met, nor witnessed any Pro Hamas support to date. No doubt some radicalised Muslims do , but I wonder exactly what posters you have seen actually state?
I have witnessed numerous Pro Palestinian support, some naive, no doubt but never seen or heard Hamas mentioned.
This one below is about the worst I have seen in this forum. They don't mention Hamas but I think it's kind of obvious. We have another that denied that Hamas was using it's citizens as human shields.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother View Post
I congratulate the Palestinian freedom fighters, and wish them well!
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Old 11-16-2023, 06:11 AM
 
695 posts, read 285,987 times
Reputation: 1229
This is telling:

Pro-Israeli march of a quarter of a million in DC the other day.
Totally peaceful.

Pro-Palestinian march of a 150 in DC yesterday.
Violence breaks out.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ent-rcna125459
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Old 11-16-2023, 07:35 AM
 
Location: New York Area
35,016 posts, read 16,978,303 times
Reputation: 30137
Quote:
Originally Posted by the troubadour View Post
I suppose the more reliable outcome would be not to create mass wounded civilian Palestinians in the first place.
Are you suggesting to shut down Israel and evacuate its Jewish population? If so where?
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Old 11-16-2023, 07:47 AM
 
Location: rural south west UK
5,406 posts, read 3,598,275 times
Reputation: 6649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wadd View Post
This is telling:

Pro-Israeli march of a quarter of a million in DC the other day.
Totally peaceful.

Pro-Palestinian march of a 150 in DC yesterday.
Violence breaks out.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/pol...ent-rcna125459
300, 000 pro Palestine march in London last Saturday which incidentally is the same numbers of Jews in the UK.
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