Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Who do you support?
Palestine 58 28.16%
Israel 148 71.84%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2023, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
Reputation: 4942

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
It’s a very difficult subject, that doesn’t have an easy solution. I fully support the 2 state solution model, and would approach it as follows:

- A return to the 1967 borders, where Palestine gets the full West Bank and Gaza. No more Israeli settlements in the West Bank
- Palestine fully recognizes the existence of Israel
- Jerusalem becomes capital of both Israel and Palestine (West and East)
- The 4 quarters of the Old City of Jerusalem ( Jewish, Christian, Muslim and Armenian) are administered by an international peacekeeping force
This is pretty much what everyone has been saying since the beginning, but it keeps falling through because Palestinians do not want to recognize Israel in any shape or form because they were unjustly kicked off their land. So they want undo that and send all the Jews back to wherever they came from (which is impossible at this point since there are multiple generations of people mixing between different groups of Jews)

And because of that Israel doesn’t recognize Palestine until Palestine recognizes them, and that is how the viscous cycle began.

Progress won’t be made until Palestine comes to the realization that Israel isn’t going anywhere. Israel of course isn’t helping the situation by continually breaking whatever trust there was and expanding their settlements.

This is why there is a growing movement to promote a one secular state solution, but there is a big risk the country would immediately fall to civil war like Lebanon which was Christian majority when it was founded. Both sides have legitimate reasons to be weary of each other.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-26-2023, 11:54 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,495,021 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
This is pretty much what everyone has been saying since the beginning, but it keeps falling through because Palestinians do not want to recognize Israel in any shape or form because they were unjustly kicked off their land. So they want undo that and send all the Jews back to wherever they came from (which is impossible at this point since there are multiple generations of people mixing between different groups of Jews)

And because of that Israel doesn’t recognize Palestine until Palestine recognizes them, and that is how the viscous cycle began.

Progress won’t be made until Palestine comes to the realization that Israel isn’t going anywhere. Israel of course isn’t helping the situation by continually breaking whatever trust there was and expanding their settlements.
I have long been a major supporter of Israel and largely still am, however this gets to the crux of the problem. It’s imperative that Palestinians recognize the right of the state of Israel, while Israel dismantles all settlements in the West Bank. By continuing to build more houses in settlements, Israel gives political parties like Hamas the perfect pretext to launch attacks.

Quote:
This is why there is a growing movement to promote a one secular state solution, but there is a big risk the country would immediately fall to civil war like Lebanon which was Christian majority when it was founded. Both sides have legitimate reasons to be weary of each other.
The problem with a single secular state is that it would undermine Jewish majority, which is at the core of Israel’s identity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2023, 05:26 AM
 
43,657 posts, read 44,375,612 times
Reputation: 20554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post

The problem with a single secular state is that it would undermine Jewish majority, which is at the core of Israel’s identity.
A single secular state that is compromises of Jordan (which is really Eastern Palestine) and the parts of the West Bank/Judea & Samaria that under the PA could perhaps work. I am not sure how Gaza would fit into this idea.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2023, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Taipei
8,864 posts, read 8,442,533 times
Reputation: 7414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
A single secular state that is compromises of Jordan (which is really Eastern Palestine) and the parts of the West Bank/Judea & Samaria that under the PA could perhaps work. I am not sure how Gaza would fit into this idea.
Let’s be honest here. None of the current solutions would work. Hatred runs deep in those nations. The difference with Israel is that they established a successful country in spite of these problems while all other players in that region do is wallowing in their stupid bitterness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2023, 07:26 AM
 
620 posts, read 312,143 times
Reputation: 623
None. It’s a complex issue going on for over thousand years and those who claim they understand it fully are probably kidding themselves.

Who do you support? It comes down to either Islamophobia or antisemitism..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2023, 05:55 PM
 
701 posts, read 288,827 times
Reputation: 1233
Probably the best peace plan was the Valley of Peace initiative. It didn't focus on land or politics or historical grievances, but prosperity through shared economic efforts. This is really the issue with Palestine, the abject poverty that exists, tempered only by foreign aid that does nothing really to improve the conditions of Palestinians, it only keeps them dependent on terrorist groups such as Hamas and continues the focus of hatred on those that they blame (rightly or wrongly) for the conditions in Palestine - Israel. The one state solution won't work because of Israeli needs for security and also the tangle of political factions operating in Palestine, in fact it would be a disaster similar to what we saw in Yugoslavia years ago. The two state solution won't work due to, admittedly, the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories. Even Palestinians don't want the two state solution anymore. What they do want to do is kill Israeli's. I am serious, recent polls show that the majority of Palestinians want military action against Israel (in terms of shooting rockets, blowing up school buses, etc.)

The Valley of Peace initiative worked. In 2008 and 2009 there was somewhat of an economic boom in parts of the West Bank, unemployment went down, opportunities arose for otherwise young, angry Palestinians without a future. But eventually leaders in both countries went back to trying to solve the unsolvable - land disputes, security, etc. What's the definition of insanity? Trying to same thing over and over again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2023, 06:44 PM
 
15,961 posts, read 7,021,038 times
Reputation: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrish78 View Post
None. It’s a complex issue going on for over thousand years and those who claim they understand it fully are probably kidding themselves.

Who do you support? It comes down to either Islamophobia or antisemitism..
only if you believe that false propaganda that anti-zionism is anti semitism. it is not. Israel was created with evil intentions, to have a western puppet in the middle east. Jews are too smart for them to be made into anybody’s puppet. so Israel is what Israel is and does what Israelis do. if the world calls them out on it for the apartheid state the Israel govt has created with the help of US arms and money, it is not antisemitism, it is legitimate criticism. the same criticism South Africa suffered for its brutal racist administration and which finally was ended.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2023, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
5,699 posts, read 4,925,642 times
Reputation: 4942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Wadd View Post
Probably the best peace plan was the Valley of Peace initiative. It didn't focus on land or politics or historical grievances, but prosperity through shared economic efforts. This is really the issue with Palestine, the abject poverty that exists, tempered only by foreign aid that does nothing really to improve the conditions of Palestinians, it only keeps them dependent on terrorist groups such as Hamas and continues the focus of hatred on those that they blame (rightly or wrongly) for the conditions in Palestine - Israel. The one state solution won't work because of Israeli needs for security and also the tangle of political factions operating in Palestine, in fact it would be a disaster similar to what we saw in Yugoslavia years ago. The two state solution won't work due to, admittedly, the Israeli settlements in the occupied territories. Even Palestinians don't want the two state solution anymore. What they do want to do is kill Israeli's. I am serious, recent polls show that the majority of Palestinians want military action against Israel (in terms of shooting rockets, blowing up school buses, etc.)

The Valley of Peace initiative worked. In 2008 and 2009 there was somewhat of an economic boom in parts of the West Bank, unemployment went down, opportunities arose for otherwise young, angry Palestinians without a future. But eventually leaders in both countries went back to trying to solve the unsolvable - land disputes, security, etc. What's the definition of insanity? Trying to same thing over and over again.
I’ve never heard of the valley of peace plan, but I agree economically intertwining Israel and Palestine and giving employment opportunities will go a long way of mending grievances. Middle class people also usually demand a representative government that reflects their needs. While impoverished people will look to a strong man leader who will blame their situation on outsiders.

A two state solution with an economic Union might be the only way of resolving the issue. That or Israel needs to let Jordan take back the West Bank and Egypt take the Gaza Strip, but at this point Jordan and Egypt seem to not want anything to do with Palestine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2023, 11:14 PM
 
4,416 posts, read 9,138,384 times
Reputation: 4318
Israel is just as guilty as Palestine regarding their behavior. Israel should be scolded when they misbehave As a Libertarian minded person our country should no longer be involved. It would be nice if a President came to power and said, Middle East, Ukraine, Taiwan you can all blow yourself to bits. We're done. We only care about the US from now on. Leave the UN, Nato, and all the others. I can only dream. If i was President this is what i would do. MSNBC, CNN, and ABC would scream and cry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2023, 08:00 AM
 
701 posts, read 288,827 times
Reputation: 1233
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I’ve never heard of the valley of peace plan, but I agree economically intertwining Israel and Palestine and giving employment opportunities will go a long way of mending grievances. Middle class people also usually demand a representative government that reflects their needs. While impoverished people will look to a strong man leader who will blame their situation on outsiders.

A two state solution with an economic Union might be the only way of resolving the issue. That or Israel needs to let Jordan take back the West Bank and Egypt take the Gaza Strip, but at this point Jordan and Egypt seem to not want anything to do with Palestine.
Indeed regarding Jordan and Egypt. Jordan and Egypt already made their peace with Israel, and Egypt has enough trouble policing Sinai adjacent to Gaza. Iran and Syria are the main players in Palestine, and of course their interests are anything but altruistic.

Unfortunately the two-state solution seems to be dead in the water as a only 39% of Palestinians now wish for it (according to a 2022 poll). They don't want a one state shared by Arabs and Jews either according to polls. What they do want simply enough is to reclaim all of Israel for Palestine. How do they do this? 59% of Palestinians indicate that they think armed attacks against Israel are contributing to the goal. Half want to continue this armed struggle.
Such is the sad reality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > World

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:16 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top