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Old 07-04-2021, 05:04 PM
 
103 posts, read 92,535 times
Reputation: 74

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
It's amazing that so many from another country, particularly European's, don't understand the underlying basic "experiment" of the United States. It's still unique among countries - a constitution based on, not what the government can do, but what the government CAN'T do.

This is mistaken for conservatism. But it really isn't. It's the focus on individual, rather than collective, freedoms. Individual liberty. For other countries that means gun control, government mandates, increased safety nets, censorship on what you can say or do, social services, employee protections. Now, it's always a sliding scale because the US has these controls as well, but it's just...less, in some cases much less. Other democracies don't get this - "you mean Nazi's are allowed to hold a parade?", "you mean you are allowed to own semi-automatic weapons". Many of the principles of the Bill or Rights is unfathomable to them. The reason is because whenever you introduce government controls, you lose some liberty. A little bit.

But it's not conservative, it's simply the founding principles of this nation. It's actually in some sense more liberal and progressive - a liberal gun control policy, a liberal freedom of speach policy, etc.
I agree with you to an extend. The US is in fact unique among most nations in the world. I would add that I like the US, unlike many people. Having talked to many people they find it bizarre that guns are widespread and allowed but things like social safety nets or public transportation are seen as "socialism."Or that the drinking age is 21 and there's a lot of moralistic attitudes towards parties, drinking or sexual topics.

I'd like to add that "censorship" might be a bit tricky nowadays. It seems that there's "progressives" in the US who don't like ideas they deem as "too offensive" and will try to cancel them or boycott, whoever, supports it. Meanwhile, in Europe some of these ideas might go unnoticed and people won't care.
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Old 07-04-2021, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Australia
3,602 posts, read 2,312,916 times
Reputation: 6932
It really means what you call conservative. Australia was founded as a convict settlement, completely different in purpose to the US. There have always been a sizeable proportion of Australians who have not been religious. Yet strangely we have a much larger proportion of students in private schools than most countries, right from kindergarten, and most private schools are aligned to religious groups. Perhaps that is why people are somewhat easygoing about religious and social beliefs, they have had some experience of the views.

Public transport is to me, a strange thing to be politicised. Everyone I know here owns a car even if they use public transport as much as possible. As I do.

What, for the sake of the discussion, is the opposite to conservative?
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Old 07-04-2021, 07:20 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,234 posts, read 108,040,687 times
Reputation: 116199
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I can't see this thread lasting long.

I have no idea what conservative means these days. For instance the UK had mass public transportation networks long before cars came along, trains and underground rail networks are the traditional means of mass transport, yet these days they are seen as an example left leaning progressiveness.

I have no doubt the people who buldozed most of Australia's tram networks in the 1960's thought themselves as progressives, as they were replacing the old with something new and different.

I am a stay at home dad, and fullfill a very traditional role a wife normal would yet consider myself conservative, mostly because I support free enterprise, and small government.
The US had mass public transportation networks long before cars came along, too. But they got bulldozed or bought out and switched to gas-consuming buses with less convenient schedules than the prior electric trams and buses. The people who did that did NOT do it out of the goodness of their hearts, feeling it would be better for society. They sold it to the public by pitching it that way, but "those people" were the leaders of the petroleum and auto industries, so they were only interested in selling more petrol and cars, and getting the American public off public transit.

They wanted America to become dependent on cars, and they succeeded. They also got sued in federal court eventually, but only had to pay a relatively small fine.
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Old 07-04-2021, 07:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,499 posts, read 6,908,457 times
Reputation: 17060
Conservatism really doesn’t fit into the political landscape of the present day America. Maybe we had conservatism back in the Eisenhower era long ago. What we have now in this dysfunctional drifting country is radicalism from both the left and the right that is fundamentally destroying this country. There is no middle ground. You are either with us or against us.
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Old 07-04-2021, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey
12,174 posts, read 8,046,859 times
Reputation: 10154
Why the hell is someone arguing Boston has a good public transportation system? Its mediocre and underwhelming for a city/urban area its size. Theres like two good lines.

You are right about that 1890s thing. But it also seems the commuter rail hasnt been touched since then. Single tracked through the majority of the suburbs, how functional. Signaling/switchboards from the 1950s that lead to countless deaths and runaway trains every year.

But anyway to answer OP, Yes.
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Old 07-04-2021, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,060 posts, read 7,508,427 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
The US had mass public transportation networks long before cars came along, too. But they got bulldozed or bought out and switched to gas-consuming buses with less convenient schedules than the prior electric trams and buses. The people who did that did NOT do it out of the goodness of their hearts, feeling it would be better for society. They sold it to the public by pitching it that way, but "those people" were the leaders of the petroleum and auto industries, so they were only interested in selling more petrol and cars, and getting the American public off public transit.

They wanted America to become dependent on cars, and they succeeded. They also got sued in federal court eventually, but only had to pay a relatively small fine.
It was also a bunch of completing railroad and train construction companies that wanted the UK to become dependent on trains that lead to the construction of the London underground rail network.

Most of the worlds tram Systems (Including those in Europe) were bulldozed in the 1950's and 1960's to make way for cars. Melbourne was pretty much the only major city in the world to keep its trams, it is still has longest urban tram network in the world in 2021. However for a long time Melbournes trams were considered to be anything but a sign a progressiveness.

The bottom line is don't think transport systems are a sign of progressiveness at all, but far more an issue of supply and demand at the time they are built.

Last edited by danielsa1775; 07-04-2021 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 07-04-2021, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,850,021 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I wonder if geography is a big reason why the United States seems to be more conservative than other Anglosphere countries. For example, the United States is pretty rural and has vast expanses of farmland in places like the Midwest and the south. Canada and Australia are also geographically large countries, but the great bulk of their land masses are not considered suitable for human habitation. Almost all of their populations are concentrated in small, narrow regions of the countries.

If Canada and Australia had huge breadbasket regions like the United States, then would they also be as conservative as the United States?
I can't speak for Australia, but Canada DOES have a huge breadbasket region -- the prairie provinces of Alberta (which is also very oil rich, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.The region is considered to be one of the world's breadbaskets.
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Old 07-04-2021, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,060 posts, read 7,508,427 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I can't speak for Australia, but Canada DOES have a huge breadbasket region -- the prairie provinces of Alberta (which is also very oil rich, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.The region is considered to be one of the world's breadbaskets.
I think the poster might be talking about population, not areas. Of course Australia is huge and is leading exporter of all kinds of agricultural products and materials, however 66% of the voters in Australia live in 4 cities (If you count Brisbane/Gold Coast as a single City), the voters in those cities are very influential on the overall result Across Australia, much more so than the combined voters in New York, LA, Chicago and Huston are in US elections.
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Old 07-04-2021, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,577,348 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I think the poster might be talking about population, not areas. Of course Australia is huge and is leading exporter of all kinds of agricultural products and materials, however 66% of the voters in Australia live in 4 cities (If you count Brisbane/Gold Coast as a single City), the voters in those cities are very influential on the overall result Across Australia, much more so than the combined voters in New York, LA, Chicago and Huston are in US elections.
Except the stats don't show that.

82.46 percent of Americans live in cities and urban areas.

81.48 in Canada

86.2 in Australia.

So per capita I doubt that more population live in the " bread baskets " of each country.

Honestly, then, I don't know what that poster could have meant, except to think that Canada and Australia don't have " bread basket " regions.

After all, I did read here on CD that one American poster thought Canada had to import all it's food since it so cold, not realizing that Canada is a major food exporter.

We will hear from that poster I'm sure, but my guess is that the power of conservatism in the US has more to do with their system.
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Old 07-04-2021, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,577,348 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
I can't speak for Australia, but Canada DOES have a huge breadbasket region -- the prairie provinces of Alberta (which is also very oil rich, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba.The region is considered to be one of the world's breadbaskets.
See post #12
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