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Old 07-07-2021, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,230 posts, read 1,718,667 times
Reputation: 2434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
I can't see this thread lasting long.

I have no idea what conservative means these days. For instance the UK had mass public transportation networks long before cars came along, trains and underground rail networks are the traditional means of mass transport, yet these days they are seen as an example left leaning progressiveness.

I have no doubt the people who buldozed most of Australia's tram networks in the 1960's thought themselves as progressives, as they were replacing the old with something new and different.

I am a stay at home dad, and fullfill a very traditional role a wife normal would yet consider myself conservative, mostly because I support free enterprise, and small government.

In America, conservative = Trump. A typical conservative would believe the election was stolen by Biden, antifa was to blame for Jan 6 capitol riot, liberal people hate America, the whole world hates America, climate change is a hoax, covid is just flu...
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Old 07-07-2021, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,060 posts, read 7,507,454 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
In America, conservative = Trump. A typical conservative would believe the election was stolen by Biden, antifa was to blame for Jan 6 capitol riot, liberal people hate America, the whole world hates America, climate change is a hoax, covid is just flu...
One thing that seems for sure to me, is that Australia seemingly lacks extremists (on both sides of the agenda) compared to the USA, we have them of course, however outwardly they appear no where near as influential.
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Old 07-07-2021, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,230 posts, read 1,718,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsa1775 View Post
One thing that seems for sure to me, is that Australia seemingly lacks extremists (on both sides of the agenda) compared to the USA, we have them of course, however outwardly they appear no where near as influential.

Isn't the current PM of Australia a big fan of Trump?


But I'm sure Trumpism is less prevalent in Australia.
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Old 07-07-2021, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Brisbane
5,060 posts, read 7,507,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Isn't the current PM of Australia a big fan of Trump?


But I'm sure Trumpism is less prevalent in Australia.
If he is I have never heard of it, though to be fair I don't really follow politics all that much.
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Old 07-07-2021, 04:54 AM
 
6,568 posts, read 12,067,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
In America, conservative = Trump. A typical conservative would believe the election was stolen by Biden, antifa was to blame for Jan 6 capitol riot, liberal people hate America, the whole world hates America, climate change is a hoax, covid is just flu...
And if you don't agree with Trump 100% then you're a liberal. The Bushes, Mitt Romney, the late John McCain, GA gov. Brian Kemp, and even Mike Pence are all considered ousted by the Republican Party and regarded as liberals.
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Old 07-07-2021, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Bergen County, New Jersey
12,172 posts, read 8,042,307 times
Reputation: 10149
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
And if you don't agree with Trump 100% then you're a liberal. The Bushes, Mitt Romney, the late John McCain, GA gov. Brian Kemp, and even Mike Pence are all considered ousted by the Republican Party and regarded as liberals.
And in New England, parts of the PNW and some random pockets around the country like Durham NC .. Biden is seen as a conservative.

The gov of MA VT are republicans but are further left than Biden, a D.
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Old 07-07-2021, 07:13 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,597 posts, read 28,700,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff View Post
As I said in an earlier post, this "belief" that you and many others hold, together with a far greater religious observance, are the key differences and drivers of relative conservatism between the countries.
Religious affiliation has actually declined significantly in the United States. It may eventually reach the level of the least religious countries, especially in certain regions of the United States.

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/...at-rapid-pace/
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Old 07-07-2021, 07:41 AM
 
14,994 posts, read 23,909,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiehoff View Post
Your rights are no greater, nor any better protected than the other countries. I understand that most Americans believe what you have written, because it is rammed into the consciousness from an early age, but the reality is there no practical difference.

Your "inalienable" rights are managed by men and women, democratically elected, just like in the UK, Canada or Australia.

People will often say, there is no 1st amendment, or bill of rights in Australia for example, in the belief that this means there is no freedom of speech etc. This is simply false. They are just achieved via different mechanisms. Mechanisms that like in the US, are controlled by elected politicians and Courts.

As I said in an earlier post, this "belief" that you and many others hold, together with a far greater religious observance, are the key differences and drivers of relative conservatism between the countries.
Just about every word you said above was wrong, perhaps because you didn't see my original post - #20. Please refer to that. Inalienable rights you don't quite get - in the US per our constitution these are rights that CANNOT be governed by men or women. That's the entire simple concept.
Individual rights are better protected in the US, probably more than any other country in the world. Your country may focus on collective rights. That may be good or bad depending on your view. But once again, once you focus on collective rights, you are taking away individual rights.
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Old 07-07-2021, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Canada
7,682 posts, read 5,537,385 times
Reputation: 8822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Just about every word you said above was wrong, perhaps because you didn't see my original post - #20. Please refer to that. Inalienable rights you don't quite get - in the US per our constitution these are rights that CANNOT be governed by men or women. That's the entire simple concept.
Individual rights are better protected in the US, probably more than any other country in the world. Your country may focus on collective rights. That may be good or bad depending on your view. But once again, once you focus on collective rights, you are taking away individual rights.
You mean rights like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How do you explain state executions then - aren’t they loss of life?
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Old 07-07-2021, 09:16 AM
 
14,994 posts, read 23,909,120 times
Reputation: 26534
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
You mean rights like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? How do you explain state executions then - aren’t they loss of life?
How do we explain prisons, or any form of punishment for criminals, which of course exist throughout the world? Criminals give up most of there rights once convicted of a crime, after due process. Liberty and pursuit of happiness ends for all of them once imprisoned.

John Locke, the English philosopher that really influenced the US Constitution, defended capital punishment, stating that those guilty of a capital crime have forfeited there right to life. The key is, really, only after due process.

This is a complex debate that still exists in the US, so not really fitting for this forum I think. And it's out of scope to the OPs topic.
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