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Old 10-02-2021, 10:43 PM
 
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I've noticed for the longest time that countries (and also states) with strong economies, services for senior citizens and persons with disabilities, and such are always located in cold, snowy, usually polar climates. Countries such as Canada, Norway, Switzerland, etc. Many of those places have no real summer, they get snow flurries in June and August, sometimes even July. Many of those countries are mostly tundra, only a few of them have even taiga climates. None of them have palm trees, making it look as though, where there's palm trees, there's no benefits or services of any kind. Even countries and states that have long, hot summers and short, cool or mild winters seem to have nothing for seniors and disabled people.

Last edited by icewave; 10-02-2021 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 10-03-2021, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Australia
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What about Italy, France, Japan, Singapore, Australia. To name a few.
None of them extremely cold countries.
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Old 10-03-2021, 07:29 AM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarisaMay View Post
What about Italy, France, Japan, Singapore, Australia. To name a few.
None of them extremely cold countries.

Yea, there are a lot of places even pretty hot ones like Singapore as you mentioned or Taiwan.


There are also countries with fairly strong social safety nets that aren't particularly wealthy such as Costa Rica and Thailand.
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Old 10-03-2021, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, there are a lot of places even pretty hot ones like Singapore as you mentioned or Taiwan.


There are also countries with fairly strong social safety nets that aren't particularly wealthy such as Costa Rica and Thailand.
This thread is most likely started by Irene again so it’s not worth replying at all, but if you think Taiwan or Singapore had strong social safety net you are delusional.
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Old 10-03-2021, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
This thread is most likely started by Irene again so it’s not worth replying at all, but if you think Taiwan or Singapore had strong social safety net you are delusional.
Yeah, (s)he is the #1 troll at C-D.
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Old 10-03-2021, 10:05 AM
 
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom
5,238 posts, read 4,064,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icewave View Post
I've noticed for the longest time that countries (and also states) with strong economies, services for senior citizens and persons with disabilities, and such are always located in cold, snowy, usually polar climates. Countries such as Canada, Norway, Switzerland, etc. Many of those places have no real summer, they get snow flurries in June and August, sometimes even July. Many of those countries are mostly tundra, only a few of them have even taiga climates. None of them have palm trees, making it look as though, where there's palm trees, there's no benefits or services of any kind. Even countries and states that have long, hot summers and short, cool or mild winters seem to have nothing for seniors and disabled people.
It’s a wonder that you didn’t mention the UK in amongst this!

Anyway, I’m glad that I live in the UK, where we look after disabled people with disability benefits, and the elderly with state pensions. Although there is always room for improvement with these things.
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:43 AM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
This thread is most likely started by Irene again so it’s not worth replying at all, but if you think Taiwan or Singapore had strong social safety net you are delusional.
Oh buddy, compared to the rest of the world including other developed countries not mentioned you'd have to have mostly lost touch with reality to think Taiwan and Singapore don't have strong social safety nets. Healthcare, transport, elderly care, public schooling costs, childcare, etc., is skads cheaper for what you get than the vast majority of the world. You're just a crank and committed miserabilist, which is endearing but it sort of makes you say fairly inaccurate things sometimes.
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Old 10-03-2021, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Green Country
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Read Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Cold climates are more collectivistic because it's harder to survive on your own in the polar regions, than in more temperate climates. So societies that have been very cold are often more tight-knit and collectivist as a result.

The harsher the climate the more "we live and die together" becomes a common axiom.

It's no surprise that the Communist Movement first caught like wildfire in Russia.

Of course, the biggest correlation is national identity. Monoethnic countries always have more robust systems because people are less reluctant to help out others "like them." Just look at the U.S. where White Southerners loved the New Deal and social programs until they benefitted Blacks, and suddenly they hate them.
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Old 10-03-2021, 01:04 PM
 
Location: In the heights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
Read Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Cold climates are more collectivistic because it's harder to survive on your own in the polar regions, than in more temperate climates. So societies that have been very cold are often more tight-knit and collectivist as a result.

The harsher the climate the more "we live and die together" becomes a common axiom.

It's no surprise that the Communist Movement first caught like wildfire in Russia.

Of course, the biggest correlation is national identity. Monoethnic countries always have more robust systems because people are less reluctant to help out others "like them." Just look at the U.S. where White Southerners loved the New Deal and social programs until they benefitted Blacks, and suddenly they hate them.
There's also the pressure cooker of resource-constrained and diverse Singapore which essentially by necessity had to either have more collective action or devolve into shortages and riots. I do think there's an argument for that the kind of level of general wealth and prosperity that generally has to come in order to have this social safety net which may be more important than cultural factors formed by the difficulties of a certain climate and having inherited that culture.

With that, a possibly more salient point made in Guns, Germs, and Steel might be the relatively easy transfer of suitable technologies, and technologies in a very broad sense of the term, among the largest swathe of land where there were conditions for agriculture and in close enough proximity to one another to be able to exchange some of those technologies. That'd be from the western parts of the North Africa and the Iberian peninsula on through to the Korean peninsula and Japan. You had varieties of wheat and barley growing from one end to another on the colder, but not permafrost frigid, parts and rice from one end to another in the more southerly parts and the exchange of all kinds of goods from writing to paper to grafting to various domestication of different plants and animals to wheels with axles to dams to bridge structures to metallurgy of different types, etc. usually transferred from one neighboring culture to another.

That kind of shared knowledge on such a large scale wasn't quite possible for most of the rest of the world, though what you're saying about cold climates would somewhat help explain why the more northern climes ended up somewhat more successful. There are also alternate theories about that though such as that part of the world having had more optimal fragmentation for the time period or that that part of the world had the easiest pathway to the bounties of the New World in access to new raw resources, establishing and extending the settlements that enlarge the the greater social sphere and people working on different advances within the same cultural sphere, incentive for prolonged engagement and improvement of maritime technology and essentially first dibs at incorporating advances from the New World in material technologies, and perhaps most apparent, in various forms of plant domestication.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-03-2021 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 10-03-2021, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Taipei
8,867 posts, read 8,452,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Oh buddy, compared to the rest of the world including other developed countries not mentioned you'd have to have mostly lost touch with reality to think Taiwan and Singapore don't have strong social safety nets.
It's stupid to compare to the rest of the world. The rest of the world are mostly very poor third world countries.

Quote:
Healthcare, transport, elderly care, public schooling costs, childcare, etc., is skads cheaper for what you get than the vast majority of the world. You're just a crank and committed miserabilist, which is endearing but it sort of makes you say fairly inaccurate things sometimes.
Except that is not true at all. Social expenditure as % of GDP in both Taiwan and Singapore is like 10%, which is extremely low. Countries with strong welfare state like France, Belgium, Austria, Germany, or Scandinavia spend more than 30%. Government doesn't take care of the poor or the unemployed. If you are poor you are ****ed. If you are unemployed you starve. No one's paying taxes to feed them like many Europeans do.
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