Europe's Immigration Problems (student loan, college, income)

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by bluepacific

This is actually an issue that all industrialized wealthy countries are having a problem with, not just Europe and North America. Like America, Europeans DON'T teach their kids a healthy work ethic at home and hence the attitude of looking down their nose towards the so-called meanial labor jobs. Those jobs have to be done by someone. So ALL governments realize that no matter, legal/illegal , they need the workers badly or the country/economy falls apart. There's nothing wrong with vocational training for trade type jobs. I mean work is work and you just do it. But somehow certain types of work in the wealthy countries is a stench to many sense of smell. They ALL expect to get free government handouts for schooling, then government handouts for job placement, but only in cushy IT/Office Jobs, or even Factory Union jobs with all the mouth watering benefits/handouts.

Then the racist attitudes come out of the woodwork when the Natives of any of these countries notice the cultural differences in various nieghborhoods and they resent it. In the age of the "We Are The World-Multiculturalism" philosophy pimped by secular progressive governments, here's an about face attitude from a Swedish Judge who deals with immigration issues and says 90% of her colleagues feel the same way as she does about multiculturalism as a failure.

The Local - Judge wrote anti-immigrant letters to Prime Minister

The Judge is a one Bodil Schibli who sat on Panels which passed judgements in a number of cases involving immigrants, including twelve cases in 2007.

She's being called on the carpet for writting Anti-Immigrant letters to the Swedish Prime Minister, Fredrik Reinfeldt imploring the government to "protect it's own people" against, "these fanatical immigrants, who really have no reason to be here, other than to be supported by taxpayers". She also wrote that Islam should be "forbidden from further spreading in our country".

Wow! How interesting! And we have been told this is the typical United States attitude. But lets be fair and honest here, it's the attitude inside of every well off country

I have only one question for that woman: What if a person coming from another country can't make it there(I'm talking stricty the individual here) and wants to do better in another country and her country happens to be that country provided he or she is willing to learn the language, and go about everything legally(including becoming a citizen)?

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by internat

There are social problems with immigrants who feel left out from mainstream society. It's the same with many black youth in U.S inner cities.

One can also not deny there's institutionalised racism in Sweden. It's well known immigrants that apply for jobs with a Swedish name have a better chance to get an interview. Some of these immigrants were brought up in Sweden and speak perfect Swedish. America is much better in this respect. Only blacks and Mexicans are still discriminated in USA, whereas a lot of the immigrants in Sweden would have much better opportunities to prosper in USA.
I think the problem lies in the socialist thinking of feeling sorry for immigrants. The social democrats, and the leftists even more, treat adults as if they were kids. The welfare society breeds laziness, not just among immigrants mind you. The new politics of the centre-right wing parties are trying to change the path. It will take time. Sweden still has the Nordic model, and as it looks now the socialists might take the power again in the next election.

Only blacks and Mexicans? No one should have to put up with it. Period.

As for the socialist factor, I can at least say this. There are people complaining about immigrants living off of the welfare state of Sweden. Isn't this the same welfare system people born and raised in Sweden sometimes use? You do have a point about a welfare society breeding laziness and it isn't just immigrants that will take advantage of it. Locals sometimes do it to. The purest form of socialism from what I have been told is suppose to be a "workers" paradise, not a "sit down and do nothing" paradise. Sweden should reform its system. Furthermore, if an immigrant committs a crime, send him to jail. If that immmigrant is there illegally, send that person back. If the person is there legally, put that person in jail the way you would put a Swedish born citizen. How hard is that? How hard would it be to give people jobs instead of encouraging welfare? Yes, some people need it, but you wouldn't need it if you had a job.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by Galloway

By the time Europe finally decides to do something about this problem it will already be too late. The spineless Euro politicians have to lose their political correctness and put laws in place that do not allow immigrants in.

No disrespect intended, but framing this issue as European, as though Europe is one country, is way too general. Europe is not a unified place, like the U.S., with one ruling federal government and tightly joined states. Far from it. Immigration dynamics in one country may not at all be the same as in another country, and the issues need to be scrutinized on a country-by-country basis. For one thing, immigration laws and the willingness/ability to control it changes vastly from country to country. For another, geographic location and political history means that European countries all face their own unique challenges.

Germany, Austria, Italy (as three examples) bordering poorer states face much the same problem the U.S. does on the Mexican border, where economic disparity drive immigration directly at the border. In Scandinavia, immigration issues revolve more around those seeking refugee status from far-away places, like Somalia, Iraq and Pakistan. Swedes are not exactly rushing the border with Norway for a better job, IOW. France has problems unknown in Scandinavia in that immigration challenges include countries that were once French protectorates in the middle-east and Africa. Algeria is probably one of the biggest example for France in this regard.

Also rules for assimilation differ from country-to-country. Greece and Turkey don't even recognize children of immigrants as citizens, but in the U.K. assimilation and citizenship is encouraged. So to lump all of Europe or all "Euro politicians" into one body doesn't have much basis in reality.

[minniemouse]

I'm italian and I have voted for this sentence:
Yes, and although the government may not be doing much, the legal citizens are fed up and are speaking out.

here, the Immigration is one of first problems.
The situation is very bad and the government isn't able to resolve this aspect.
In Italy, we need to severe laws.
Now, the situation is a big caos.
I hate live here.

i would like to live in USA!!!!

[Moth]

Germany, Austria, Italy (as three examples) bordering poorer states face much the same problem the U.S. does on the Mexican border, where economic disparity drive immigration directly at the border

Which poor states do they border? Italy borders France, Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia. None of those are poor. Austria borders Germany, Italy, Switzerland Lichtenstein, Slovenia, CR, and Hungary. The last two are not in the same league as the others but they are hardly third world like Mexico. Add Poland, France and Denmark to Germany's border with Poland being the "poorest" although they are doing rather well.

The USA/Mexican border is, more or less, the only place where the First World touches the Third World.

Your other points are good.

[internat]

Originally Posted by cre8

Swedes are not exactly rushing the border with Norway for a better job, IOW.

Bad example, as Swedes actually do work in Norway because of higher salaries and tax benefits. I know medical doctors and nurses who have done just that in recent years.

[Winston Smith]

Originally Posted by internat

Bad example, as Swedes actually do work in Norway because of higher salaries and tax benefits. I know medical doctors and nurses who have done just that in recent years.

Yes, Swedes work in Norway, and Norwegians work in Sweden, Danes work in Norway, Swedes work in Finland, etc. But all of these countries are economic equals. The Norway/Sweden border is more like U.S./Canada -- and very much UNLIKE borders where "east-meets-west" in continental Europe. The economic disparities between, say, the Balkans and richer neighbors to the north and west drive illegal immigration there -- directly at the border -- in much different ways, and at much different levels than in Scandinavia.

Again, my basic point is that immigration issues in Europe are not uniformed. They are different for each country because of geography, political history and each country's immigration laws. There is no such thing as "European laws" governing immigration for the continent. This is why statements suggesting that "spineless ... Euro politicians [need to do this that or the other]" (in the original post I responded to) are meaningless. That was my point.

Originally Posted by Moth

Which poor states do they border? Italy borders France, Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia. None of those are poor. Austria borders Germany, Italy, Switzerland Lichtenstein, Slovenia, CR, and Hungary. The last two are not in the same league as the others but they are hardly third world like Mexico. Add Poland, France and Denmark to Germany's border with Poland being the "poorest" although they are doing rather well.

The USA/Mexican border is, more or less, the only place where the First World touches the Third World.

Your other points are good.

Well, specifics may be nuanced. Nevertheless, Germany, Austria and Italy (my examples) are geographically much closer to poorer countries, fostering both overland and sea-bound (Italy) illegal immigration dynamics that aren't as prevalent in other places in Europe. Generally speaking.

Maybe my turn to fine-tune specifics: The Mexico/U.S. border is where the Developing World -- not the Third World -- meets the First World. Mexico and most countries in Latin America are not Third World. They are Developing, or "Second" World. Haiti, Sub-Saharan Africa and certain places in Asia are Third World.

Thanks otherwise, Moth, for the credit.

[averagejoe76]

Europe has some countries that are handling Immigration allright and..
Some that are doing horribly.
You could see the french become a minority in their own country in 20-30 years.

[Raggy dee Ann]

Originally Posted by minniemouse

I'm italian and I have voted for this sentence:
Yes, and although the government may not be doing much, the legal citizens are fed up and are speaking out.

here, the Immigration is one of first problems.
The situation is very bad and the government isn't able to resolve this aspect.
In Italy, we need to severe laws.
Now, the situation is a big caos.
I hate live here.

i would like to live in USA!!!!

I'm always amazed at how so many complain about immigration in their country, but want to go to another country as an immigrant

[Galloway]

Originally Posted by Moth

Which poor states do they border? Italy borders France, Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia. None of those are poor. Austria borders Germany, Italy, Switzerland Lichtenstein, Slovenia, CR, and Hungary. The last two are not in the same league as the others but they are hardly third world like Mexico. Add Poland, France and Denmark to Germany's border with Poland being the "poorest" although they are doing rather well.

The USA/Mexican border is, more or less, the only place where the First World touches the Third World.

Your other points are good.

Umm.......Italy is close to Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, and Poor Balkans countries like Albania, Bosnia, etc.