Why we're moving back to the US (from Paris) (to rent, chapel)

[ihynes]

"It's weird to think that with a very difficult and rigorous education system that the majority of the French end up under-performers and under-achievers. Once they get their job they're set for life."

Now, that's an interesting observation!

[ihynes]

one more thing - if you want to see general photos of what places look like before moving, I suggest Panoramio.com

[Amazonas]

In regards of educational system, I completely disagree in the idea that the French or European system is better than its American counter part. I'm a foreigner living in the States. When I went to school, we had about twenty subjects per calendar year in highschool which made it extremely strict. Besides the normal math classes, we also had Latin, French, German, and English. After many years comparing educational systems and after living abroad for most of my life, I have come to the understanding that Americans are THE MOST practical individuals in the entire planet. Yes, it is quite a bonus to know a bit of everything, but I would rather be the best at something than beign good at everything; but no good at anything in particular...if that makes sense. In fact, we have a saying that goes "El que mucho abarca poco aprieta" which literally means don't bite off more than you can chew. A well rounded education is good, but unfortunately our society has changed and demands individuals that specializes in a particular field.

Americans, once in the workforce, are very flexible. Their sense of entreperneurship and problem solving is just astonishing. They can grab a turd, wrap it in a nice paperwrap or box, put a bow on it, apply some marketing ideas here and there and then you have a Martha Stewart or Bill Gates. The rest of the world ain't that creative. So much education really does not reflect on our every day live issues or capacity of evolving along with our society. Is it coincidence that American Colleges and Universities are high demand? ....you be the judge.

[Bluesbabe]

I have never been abroad, but I've had conversations with many people who have, and in different parts of the world. And while many of them missed certain things about their countries of origin, ALL said the same thing: It's still better here than anywhere else. And your thread shows a good example of what those negative trade-offs can be. It's a changing world, and who knows what even the US will be like from today on out. But I say "welcome home", at least while you're young enough to enjoy what we still offer here.

I'll admit, though, I was quite shocked over the housing market you mentione. Sheesh!

[cunparis]

Originally Posted by ihynes

6 - restaurants with food from countries all over the world (how many people have eaten at an Afghanistan restaurant?)

just a thought - my hometown (Madison, WI) is a university town, and there is an Afghani restaurant, next to a Turkish restaurant, surrounded by bookstores and cafes - so I think that the poster's interests in Charlotte or Raleigh will make them happy, as that is a university corridor and seems to be attracting a lot of educated, white collar professionals these days

BTW, I was very interested to read about the demanding French school system; I had no idea that kids were under that much pressure there, with so much homework. Hasn't research shown that play time is learning time, too?

That is a good point that university areas do have more international culture and food. I think that is one reason I'm attracted to Raleigh. I don't know if they have a lot of ethnic restaurants, but it seems that there are a lot of educated people there due to the universities & all the research oriented companies.

The problem with the French school system is that it hasn't changed much in a very long time (since before most adults with kids were in school and probably longer). It's extremely rigid. I have heard that you can move and take your kid from any school to any other school and the kid won't miss anything because every school in the country has a strict schedule and is teaching the same thing at the same time. I haven't personally verified this, but just the idea is interesting.

They just recently, as in the past year or two, stopped school on saturday morning. Before it was monday & tuesday, thursday & friday, and then half day on saturday. And school goes from 8:30 to 4:30 unlike the US where school stops around 3:15. The saturday school was a real problem because it prevented people from going away for the weekend. Fortunatley they stopped saturday school, but from what I understand they didn't change the ciriculum and teachers were complaining that they had to teach the same amount of material with 4 hours less of classroom instruction!!

They said on TV the other day that the standardized test scores of the students are going down each year. That would make a good argument against their rigid system.

Now I'm not saying school is great in the US, to the contrary I think the test scores are going down as well. I just think France's system is not the answer.

[cunparis]

Originally Posted by Amazonas

A well rounded education is good, but unfortunately our society has changed and demands individuals that specializes in a particular field.

Amazonas, outstanding post, thanks for sharing. I totally agree with what you wrote. And your point about our society is right on. And this is why I think the French system is starting to break down, because the system is standardized and controlled by the Education Ministry who doesn't want it to change. Forget about innovation or adapting to the current society.

In researching daycare and school for our young girls (3y & 1y) I saw a lot of innovation in teaching methods and different approaches in the US. Specialty schools such as international, bilingual, small schools, etc. In France I don't find the same thing as they're all standardized.

I hope to write a book about this someday, with the help of my French friends and coworkers. But it'd be a huge effort with lots of research, but maybe someday.

[texdav]

Its the same old the grass always seems greener some where else.

[pigeonhole]

Yes, it is quite a bonus to know a bit of everything, but I would rather be the best at something than beign good at everything; but no good at anything in particular...if that makes sense. In fact, we have a saying that goes "el que mucho abarca poco aprieta"

Exactly. Having studied in France, I can tell you that I resent deeply the fact that unfortunately like that, and I resent it deeply. I have a good overall culture , but for instance I'm unable to paint a room without putting more paint on me than on the walls, I didn't learn a trade, so I 'm "simmering" as a lowly, low paid anonymous clerk in the public sector , and I'm whining instead of taking my life into my own hands and struggling. I'm typically French. But at least I don't have an undeserved high self-esteem like many of my fellow citizens.

[pigeonhole]

And about the French school system : if you can put your childen in a private school in 1st grade, they may (not always the case ) have English classes.
In the public sector, it's very rare, because public schools have an official agenda : they MUST TEACH ONLY "the language of the Republic" (art2 of the French Constitution : "French is the language of the Republic"), yes the "Education National" is chauvinistic.

[jja100]

Originally Posted by cunparis

I'm American who came to Paris 8 years ago. I planned on staying for a few years and going back. But I met my wife, started a family, etc.

The first few years Paris was great. It was like being on vacation all the time. Everything new and different. A total assault on the senses. Met people from countries I never knew existed.

Then after 3-4 years it got to be the routine. Suddenly I started noticing all the dog poop I was constantly stepping in. The polution stains on the monuments I loved. The constant noise polution from the traffic. The bums on the street. The total lack of air conditioning in all but the newest of offices.

This is the novelty wearing off. It happens anywhere you go.

Originally Posted by cunparis

After a few more years, the fact that we could never buy a normal sized home and that to get ahead in my company I'd only see my kids about 10 minutes a day.

Socialist countries keep real estate prices artificially high in order to control illegal immigrants from assimilating which would destroy their "culture" for which they need to protect for tourist dollars.

Originally Posted by cunparis

So after thousands of hours of reflection and discussion with my wife we have decided that we're tired of Paris. Specifically:

- the crowdedness, people literally are on top of each other here. No parking, roads saturated, people crammed into tiny apartments, etc.

- stressful. everyone is stressed, no double due to the tough living conditions

- hard to make friends. they just aren't friendly here. I actually have an easier time than my wife because I'm American and "different". Even a novelty at work. but still much harder than in the US. With everyone living in apartments it's not like the kids can just play out in the yard (there is no yard) or the street (too dangerous)

These reflections can be attributed to living in any major city of the world. NYC can be just as crowded, more stressful, and way harder to make friends.

Originally Posted by cunparis

- home prices. a house where we rent, which is not by any means a nice area, it's just close to Paris, goes for around 1.5 million dollars. I've decided I'm never going to be able to afford that. For me when someone can't afford to buy a home it's a big clue that the salary / cost of living ratio isn't favourable and one should move.

Homes can be just as expensive in the tri-state area. The killer is the property taxes which are insane compared to Europe. I do agree though, the US pays you more relative to your cost of living than Europe does but you must add up the cost of property tax and health insurance to make sure you are comparing apples to apples.

Originally Posted by cunparis

- french school system. It completely breaks the kids. No extracurricular activities, the kids are doing homework all the time. Evenings and weekends. Their childhood is completely stolen by the school system

I actually have to side with the French on this. They have a better education system than the US. I honestly don't believe that school should have any extra-curricular activities. There are enough distractions already. I would exploit the European education system, he/she will be much better prepared later in life especially if you are moving back to the US where he/she will probably be ahead of the game.

Originally Posted by cunparis

And so we want to move to the US. It's been a weekly if not daily discussion for the past several years. We identified 3 cities: San Diego, Charlotte, and Raleigh. SD is too expensive so we are now debating between Charlotte & Raleigh. We're trying to learn what we can about them. We've visited both once.

I live in Southern California. The weather here is just as good as Europe but also expensive. Basically think of it as having the weather of the European rivieras with the modern conveniences of the US.

Originally Posted by cunparis

I'm interested in discussing this with other Americans who have lived abroad and have moved back to the US. There is a lot that I don't like about the US, and a lot that I prefer about France. But overall I think a medium sized town in the US is the best fit for our family at this time.

Move to Texas. They have the cheapest housing per square foot. They build the best quality houses in the US, the job market is thriving there compare to the rest of the US, and no state income taxes so you can wealth build easier if that is your wish.