Why we're moving back to the US (from Paris) (spring break, renting)

[stan4]

Hm. Everything was old, dingy, cramped, crowded, expensive, and technologically behind the times? I mean, had you been to Europe before? Maybe I just noticed all that right away.

In all seriousness, I love Paris. I'm sorry your go at it wasn't a better experience. The up-side to moving back will be lower housing prices, anyway. Best wishes.

[cunparis]

Originally Posted by stan4

Hm. Everything was old, dingy, cramped, crowded, expensive, and technologically behind the times? I mean, had you been to Europe before? Maybe I just noticed all that right away.

In all seriousness, I love Paris. I'm sorry your go at it wasn't a better experience. The up-side to moving back will be lower housing prices, anyway. Best wishes.

I'm not sure who you're replying to. I think initially the fact that Paris was so different was its source of charm. I always joked with my wife that Paris was 50 years behind the US. As I saw long lines of people waiting for bread (like 20+ people) I would joke that it was the great depression. But the joke was on me. Those people were waiting because they knew the best boulangerie with the best baguettes and they were prepared to wait for them!

But after a while all this charm wears off. Again, coming here on vacation and living here are totally different. And the quality of living is getting worse here as the cost of living goes up considerably. Again, tourists don't notice this but the Parisians do.

I love Paris. I just don't want to live here.

[fruitlassie]

Originally Posted by Alt Dach

Geez-you don't have to live in London or Paris-if you want a big city try Berlin-cheap and clean.

Berlin has a lot of good qualities, but it is another "famous for dog crap" place (some would say the graffiti on every flat surface also detracts from a "clean" appearance) and real jobs that pay decent wages can be very tough to find. The rents are cheap for a reason!

[pigeonhole]

GREETINGS, cumparis!
You stated exactly what's wrong with Paris.
I'm a Parisian, and it's been year I have been fed up with this megalopolis (12 million inhabitants with suburbs, more than London or LA).
Yet when I write on this Forum that I can't stand living there (although I moved to a comparatively green and pleasant -for Parisian standards- suburb ) people -French or what I call American tourists- yell at me, and I 'm the one who is not worth of Paris!
Paris is a very hard city to live in year after year unless one is very wealthy, at last an American who understands this fact!

[Moonie234]

Just to say about the French educartional system, I have a couple of French mates who are 17 and 19, and are both terrifyingly intelligent compared with me, a "good" student of the English educational system.

It may be tough but it certainly works.

[caseras]

Originally Posted by Moonie234

Just to say about the French educartional system, I have a couple of French mates who are 17 and 19, and are both terrifyingly intelligent compared with me, a "good" student of the English educational system.

It may be tough but it certainly works.

Even not, the only good thing in the french educationnal system is the fact it's free for everyone....

That's it. I think your couple of friend is just a rare exception. The french are not better than other. Did you try to make a comparison with the germans or any other country in northern Europe ?

[caseras]

Originally Posted by pigeonhole

GREETINGS, cumparis!
You stated exactly what's wrong with Paris.
I'm a Parisian, and it's been year I have been fed up with this megalopolis (12 million inhabitants with suburbs, more than London or LA).
Yet when I write on this Forum that I can't stand living there (although I moved to a comparatively green and pleasant -for Parisian standards- suburb ) people -French or what I call American tourists- yell at me, and I 'm the one who is not worth of Paris!
Paris is a very hard city to live in year after year unless one is very wealthy, at last an American who understands this fact!

Paris has got 11 millions of people, yes it's hard to live in. I moved out several years ago to live closed to Bretagne in Normandy. Why don't you do the same ? 53 years it's a long time to complain don't you think ? move out ! ! Yes, the wages are lower, but the life is easier. France is certainly with Spain the best country to have a good life, and as there is not just Barcelona and Madrid in Spain , there is not just Paris in France. So many cities in France can provide you what you are looking for.

[cunparis]

Originally Posted by Moonie234

Just to say about the French educartional system, I have a couple of French mates who are 17 and 19, and are both terrifyingly intelligent compared with me, a "good" student of the English educational system.

It may be tough but it certainly works.

What is the definition of "works"?

By works if we mean the average French high school graduate is smarter than the average US graduate, then I agree. They are particularly more knowledgeable in world affairs, politics, philosophy and literature.

On the other hand, French students typically live with their parents until they're 25-27. They graduate from college and get their first job.

Thus when graduating the French are more intelligent but still a bit naïf in many other ways. The French system breaks them down and makes them fall into a mold. Many leave work and take a job they'll have for the rest of their lives. Many will get yearly raises that are below the rate of inflation, meaning they're actually making less and less each year. And the weird thing is, although they complain about, most are submissive to this system.

I'm trying to find an explanation for it, but I can say for sure that ambition is not in the French culture. Even worse, it's looked down upon. It's the total opposite of the US.

I think in the US kids learn as much out of school as they do in. I'm talking about teamwork that is learned from sports, band, etc. Teamwork in France isn't a natural concept, there is fierce competition at school that continues into the workplace. They have a saying "Chaqu'un pour soi et dieu pour tous" which means "Everyone for themselves and God for everyone". I can't tell you how many times I've heard this! So many that I start to believe it myself unfortunately.

US kids learn responsability, negotiating, teamwork, etc. when they work part time jobs. The importance of this is often underestimated.

In short, yes I agree the French have superior intellect. But I think there are drawbacks to the system as well and in the end it's not so advantageous.

Yesterday I gave a presentation at work about new technologies that most weren't aware of (I did a show of hands before I started). After I had finished I was answering questions as most of them were heading for the door. It was 6pm. Only 3 of them stayed afterwards to continue the discussion with me. One of those 3 made this remark and he thought it was very telling (he is French too).

In summary, I prefer the US school system even if the kids are a little less intelligent. I think the values the US kids learn are more important. For exapmle I graduated from an average public university certainly not the best. But I was very ambitious and I put in a lot of extra effort to improve my skills, get more salary when I changed jobs, etc. My French coworkers here make fun of me saying I have a "salaire de ministre" (not sure how to translate literally but a ministre is a government official who is very highly paid). Yet at the same time they are capable of what I did which was not much more than a lot of hard work, dedication, and ambition. They are capable of it but they prefer to complain about their salary instead.

So I'm convinced the US system is better (but by no means perfect) and we plan to move to the US for our kids.

Finally I'll wrap this up in saying that the French kids do nothing but school and homework. All the time. There is no time for sports & other activities. For me it's a very sad tradeoff. A childhood for more academic knowledge. Knowledge that for the most part will go unused and forgotten.

The knoweldge can be gained at any time in life, but their childhood is lost forever.

[pigeonhole]

IT's EXACTLY LIKE THAT, Cunparis
You grasoed perfectly the realities of the French system.
May I add that the US system, which emphasizes extra curricular activities ans teamwork, is also better for the development of the kid's personality. It produces more open-minded, all-embracing adults, more selfcritical instead of follow the rules like a good little soldier

[Catbirds]

I think Raleigh would be the best bet for you because of the large amount of people from all over the country and the world there. Start going into the forums in that area to talk to the people that live there.