Why we're moving back to the US (from Paris) (low income, crime rate)

[ysabella]

I'm sympathetic. I lived in Europe for three years and I really loved it, but in the end, I felt I could better live the life I want back in the States. In fact, I think we can use more well-traveled Americans living here!

[allenk893]

Originally Posted by azoria

Yes.

Living overseas can be very difficult indeed. Major metro areas where you are always the outsider, where housing is beyond crowded and beyond expensive, where the awe of ancient monuments and the legacy of history dim in the face of the trials of daily living and raising a family in the crush of unfriendly and unaffordable foreign capitols.

So come home. It's ok. It doesn't mean you have given up. America, for all it's warts and faults and shortcomings is really a pretty good place to raise kids. You can have a house with a yard, send them off to the school bus every morning with their lunch boxes, play softball in the clean neighborhood park on Saturdays.

Later when the kids are grown (they grow up so fast) you and your wife can decide where you should go. Back to Paris, stay in the US, wander elsewhere.

Raising kids is a stage of life, not a permanent condition.

Coming home is not giving up your own visions and dreams of adventure. America has it's advantages, this a very family friendly place. Once the kids are up and grown you can go out once again and follow your notions. Paris will wait for you.

I know that you probably don't want a child's two cent's in your living conditions but I have to say, in your situation that you want to raise your kids in a nice home, good schools, a nice neighborhood and affordable living, I would say your best bet is Texas. You should consider moving somewhere in Texas. It's far from Paris as I had seen myself on a spring break trip. But at least in Texas, you can afford the american dream. A spacey house, a backyard, a car, a good neighborhood, good schools, etc. It's beautiful here! Sometimes I wonder why people from other countries looking to visit the U.S. don't check out Texas! There's so much open sky out here it's beautiful. Just please consider it! I live in San Antonio and it's nice here~

[Ransie80]

Originally Posted by cunparis

Great post WillysB and I agree with you, but..



1 - baguettes
2 - meeting people from all over the world
3 - hearing foreign languages (by foreign I mean not french or american) spoken every time I leave the house
4 - notre dame
5 - eiffel tower
6 - restaurants with food from countries all over the world (how many people have eaten at an Afghanistan restaurant?)
7 - interesting political discussions - I didn't know anything about politics when I came. I came to France a republican and I will leave a democrat
8 - being around people who are able to debate and challenge religion (most of the "young" French are not religious)
9 - the best tap water in the world
10 - being in a country that is not too puritan. seeing a woman's breast is actually not that bad.

I could probably think of more.

I prefer puritan people......I think it's not that educative for the children to see everywhere you turn your eyes woman's breast..woman's back....Same thing here in Italy....In Romania you can see all the worst about women....they don't know what means to be pudic....Guess why all the most b***s come from Romania.....I think it's not in the purpose of a good ,professional and religious parent to hope his daughter becomes a b***..And I also had te chance to meet french girls..Many and many are that vulgar....Vulgar and snob people...
I'm quite layed back about this matter.

[ionlife]

Really great questions about where to live once returning to the states. First of all, I agree that the DC suburbs will give a truly cosmopolitan feel with cheaper housing than Paris. However, the top Virginia County, Fairfax County, is very overcrowded and more expensive. One of the most accessible areas for small town feel in a large urban area that is close to the metro and accessible to the beautiful monuments and downtown DC is Vienna, VA. To buy a house there, a decent nice fairly new one, tho, you will spend over 700,000 dollars. That is still a lot of money. If you go a little further out, to fairfax, you will spend a bit less. VA is a great area with wineries in the western parts/close to a lot of great city experiences/definitely cosmopolitan. We lived there 9 years and loved it. We were in a 3 bedroom, end unit townhouse that was about 20 minutes from the Metro and we availed ourselves all the ammenities in the area.

But it was expensive. When my husband go the opportunity to go to Alabama and work in Huntsville's Redstone Arsenal, we jumped on the chance to move to an easier school system that respected family time, cheaper cost of living and great place to raise families. It is actually a small metro area with a diversity that surprised me when I arrived. However, all the pros don't outweigh the fact that we do miss a larger cosmopolitan place to live. We've discussed what to do with that issue and, if the economy holds up for us, and our retirement is solid, we will probably go to Texas. Houston to be exact. It has the small town, laid back lifestyle alongside a very cosmopolitan atmosphere as well as an international airport (highly necessary as we are huge fans of Europe and love to visit our friends there).

I'd check out Houston--Woodlands or Sugarlands are lovely spots. Cheap to buy houses (cheaper than Huntsville which surprises me) and great life to live. Great warm weather as well.

Charlotte and Raliegh are also wonderful spots to live.

I hope it goes okay with you. Paris is not like the rest of France. And yes, it is dirty -- people pee in the streets which disgusts me. And I agree about the fact that Europe always bashes Americans for the poverty and homeless situation, but honestly it is not any better over there.

I love Paris to visit--beautiful things to see and excellent cuisine, but I wouldn't want to live there anymore than I would want to live in downtown Washington D.C.

Again, good luck

[WillysB]

I'm interested in discussing this with other Americans who have lived abroad and have moved back to the US. There is a lot that I don't like about the US, and a lot that I prefer about France. But overall I think a medium sized town in the US is the best fit for our family at this time.

Regardless of what I may have said in a previous post - and - to a poster in another thread who said events in November may deem it necessary for him to leave the U.S., to which I laughed, today I'll say... don't be hasty.

Dog poop and car fires may soon look good. Or you may want to consider something like Australia. Especially if you have kids. Good luck.

[JMT]

When I was a child, my family lived in Manila which is infinitely dirtier and more dangerous than Paris. When I was a teenager we lived in Hong Kong which is infinitely noisier and more crowded than Paris. Then it was on to Lille and Strasbourg. I would never, ever change those experiences for anything in the US. Growing up expat provided a gazillion more opportunities than I ever could've had in the US. If anything, it strengthened my resolve to be a good American, but it also made me a better citizen of the world (I hope).

My old college roommate works in La Defense. He and his wife have SEVEN kids and live out in the far suburbs (Cergy). They absolutely adore it and have been there for 5 years. They're still very proud to be Americans, but they love what they're able to experience in Paris. Life in suburban Paris isn't necessarily as convenient as living in an American suburb, but they and their kids are soaking it up and plan on staying as long as they can.

The cultural opportunities alone are worth considering. I mean, one day one of their daughters had a question about Monet. So they hopped in the car and spent the following Saturday at Giverny. Weekends in the Alps, quick trips to London, short vacations on the Breton coast, a TGV run to the Mediterranean. Do you really want to give all that up for...Raleigh??

Maybe the grass is always greener, but--for me--if I had the opportunity to raise my family in Paris vs. Raleigh or Charlotte, I'd choose Paris any day of the week.

Bonne chance!

[Huckleberry3911948]

interesting ------the break point for most is 5 years. been there done that.
then they can never return and be "an american".
its alters you permanently. good luck.
as to living on the coast
my uncle in mississippi says huck livin in california is like livin with a beautiful woman that has a headache all the time.
fyi very true what you say bout french school. they are not kids they are small adults.
of course we pay a price for our poor academics. of course here it does not matter if your kid has lousy grades, so long as papa got lots of money--- but that is going to change here very very soon.
the sweetest words i ever heard when i got back was said at entry check point.
welcome home huck.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

interesting ------the break point for most is 5 years. been there done that.
then they can never return and be "an american".
its alters you permanently. good luck.

Interesting. I wonder if this will happen to my kid. He has lived in France on/off the past few years, in March '09 it will be a full 12 consecutive months. He has a French girlfriend.

Originally Posted by JMT

The cultural opportunities alone are worth considering. I mean, one day one of their daughters had a question about Monet. So they hopped in the car and spent the following Saturday at Giverny. Weekends in the Alps, quick trips to London, short vacations on the Breton coast, a TGV run to the Mediterranean. Do you really want to give all that up for...Raleigh??

LOL

[cunparis]

Originally Posted by JMT

My old college roommate works in La Defense. He and his wife have SEVEN kids and live out in the far suburbs (Cergy). They absolutely adore it and have been there for 5 years.

If they have SEVEN kids it doesn't surprise me that they like it in France, there are so many social advantages to people with "famille nombreuse" (3 or more kids). Life must be practically free for them.

This all sounded good except for the Cergy part. As my wife just said "C'est la zone". Not sure how to translate that other than Cergy is considered a bad area with high crime. It's also very far from Paris.

And this is the problem. The housing is so expensive here that living in a decent area is not affordable. I'm glad they're happy in Cergy but I don't think we would be. We're not even happy where we live. All the graffiti, robberies - our neighbor in our building has had his apartment broken into twice, the eyeglass store 1 minute walk from us was robbed, etc., during the riots they even burned a car parked in front of our building! And we live in 92, one of the nicest areas just outside of Paris!!!

Here's the delima. It's not just the cut-throat business environment, the high stress, the dogpoop, the ever-increasing cost of living, or the rude, inconsiderate, and hypocritic people that I want to get away from. It's also the French school system. So that doesn't leave many options. In fact the only one I can think of is the American School in St. Cloud, which happens to be in a really unaffordable place to live (over 2 million for a house that's no where near as nice as a $200k house in Cary).

I just can't figure out how to make it work. If we move outside of the Paris area, say to Bretagne or down south where we can afford a house, then we'll be stuck with French school systems which will completely break our kids down and put them into the French mold, robbing them of their childhood in the progress. If we stay send them to a bilingual school it will be even worse because they'll have two school systems to do which means even more homeowork (as if 4-5 hours a day of homework isn't enough). So then the option is the American school and the 2 million dollar houses around it. Not to mention the fact that home prices have went up in value so much that it's very dangerous to buy now. A bubble is likely to burst one day leaving people with $400,000 studio apartments in deep trouble.

One answer could be to give up the hope of owning our own house and just renting the rest of our lives. I have a hard time with that one but many of our friends have already accepted it as a reality.

When I do the math, we could buy the $200k house in Raleigh and when my daughter asks me a question about Monet we'll fly first class to Paris and see Giverny and the Musée d'orsay, maybe even springing for one of those tour guides. The trip would be paid for by interest we're not paying on a 2 million dollar home (about $90k per year).

[mbv2008]

Originally Posted by laysayfair

I agree with everything you said EXCEPT I can't think of one single big American city that is known for having dog feces all over the place. I think that is the one thing you could not "cut and paste".

NYC! I lived in NY for over 18 years. Bay Ridge, Brooklyn was the worst (a lot of dog lovers over there). Gravesend was better but not by much (both really nice areas otherwise). In Manhattan, they use those little plastic bags, but only when other people (or the police) are watching. Upper West Side residents were the nicest (I lived on W79th street for a few years) but, again, only during the day. At night - forgetaboutit. I hate dogs and especially dog lovers since then, for this reason alone.