Why we're moving back to the US (from Paris) (fit in, how much)

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by sailordave

This whole thing about education and success among American blacks is a complicated issue. First off is substandard housing of the very poor, especially in cities. Many of these substandard homes are loaded with lead paint walls which can result in lead poisoning. At home, school, and church they are constantly reminded they come from slavery and that the "white man" is always keeping them down. Some use this as a motivation to improve themselves but many come to expect that they'll never amount to anything because the white man will always keep them down. Current culture holds rappers and professional sports stars to a higher regard than those who hold positions that require years of study in school and universities. In fact, among many black youth today, if a young black man studies hard, gets good grades, speaks clearly and without slang, he is accused of "acting white" which is considered a vile insult.

You're right it is complicated the reason some in the inner city is not so much that too much emphasis is placed on the white man holding them back .Some degree true that people feel this way but it not what they wake saying to themselves everyday.The fact that as you are correct in saying that rappers and professional athletes are held high is because in the cyclic generational areas of poverty,many of these people do not know what the world has to offer.Many have never even been to the nicer parts of the city that's only 10 minutes from them.None the less out of the city or state.They don't have role models of doctors and lawyers etc.The only people they see coming out of the hood is Rappers and Athletes.Also what about opportunity?To have a goal to shoot for you have to believe that it is achievable.Many don't even think they will live long because of the crime and drugs.

There is too much self pity and not enough personal responsibility.However those that do want to break out are not able to many times because they do not have access to the tools they need to make it out.Or even help from someone that gives a damn.Like human nature,the path of less resistance will eventually win out over hard work.Especially when society does not care what goes on in their "HOODS" as long as it does not reach the suburbs.Its the only thing they have some control over or feeling of "power" against a system that does not take them into consideration.

It brings me back to my point.If Education was up to par and school buildings were not run down places that look like the project some live in,Half the battle is won.Exposure to thing outside their community is also a major component.Take France and it main cities.Paris and many of that nation have some if not worse ghettos in the Western world if not general world itself.The education that these minorities in the suburban ghetto's are just as good as that in the city.The difference is that France has over the years built huge towering project buildings as far as an hour away from the main city.They basically separated the classes.You cannot live in Paris and be poor.Yet if you talk to the average Parisian or Frenchman they know very little about what goes on in these ghettos.(BTW ghetto is originally a French word)Yet on their shows and conversations degrading America about how it treats its poor,they are relentless!!They really are secluded away from other classes.This is why they are rioting and the police don't even have control in these places.They have nothing to loose they feel.Even if its not true,its the actions of the government that people see through.Class is still very much and issue in France.Where are your parents from?When getting a job if you do not go to the right school or from the right place,you can forget it.

At least all is not at that rate that bad YET.Children if they are able to break past the setbacks, can write there own ticket because at least in America hard work will win out over Racism.

[Minato ku]

Unlike the common through Paris has many poor and many minority live inside inner Paris.
Most minority are middle class as well in paris and its suburbs.

Middle high school kids in inner Paris





I previously showed that the poorest district of Paris where the northern inner suburbs, often served by the metro and RER so not at 1 hours of inner Paris.

Originally Posted by Minato ku

The median income map in Paris region


Simplified povery map of Paris region




[SIZE="1"]Note that in french the comma is the equivalent of the english point.[/SIZE]
1. inner city Paris 75
Inner suburbs
2 Haut de Seine 92
3 Seine Saint Denis 93
4 Val de Marne 94
Outer suburbs
5 Essonne 91
6 Yvelines 78
7 Val-d'Oise 95
8 Seine-et-Marne 77

We clearly see here that Paris outer suburbs are mostly middle and upper class and that unlike the common through inner Paris has the second high poverty rate.
Paris don't even have the right size, if you want a good comparasion you should see a Paris with at least 6.5 million inhabitants. Paris don't expend its border since 1860 and now inner suburbs are more urban than most american downtown.
If New York was in the case of Paris, Manhattan would be the city when Brooklyn, the Bronx and The Quenns would be inner suburbs.
Just see Seine Saint Denis as the Parisian Bronx.

Place where police don't enter are a myth.
Please don't believe at Fox news.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by Minato ku

Unlike the common through Paris has many poor and many minority live inside inner Paris.
Most minority are middle class as well in paris and its suburbs.

Middle high school kids in inner Paris





I previously showed that the poorest district of Paris where the northern inner suburbs, often served by the metro and RER so not at 1 hours of inner Paris.



We clearly see here that Paris outer suburbs are mostly middle and upper class and that unlike the common through inner Paris has the second high poverty rate.
Paris don't even have the right size, if you want a good comparasion you should see a Paris with at least 6.5 million inhabitants. Paris don't expend its border since 1860 and now inner suburbs are more urban than most american downtown.
If New York was in the case of Paris, Manhattan would be the city when Brooklyn, the Bronx and The Quenns would be inner suburbs.
Just see Seine Saint Denis as the Parisian Bronx.

Place where police don't enter are a myth.
Please don't believe at Fox news.

Actually i have a Belgium and French tenants that live with me.The French guy is half Algerian.They and some Senegalese students that lived there(PARIS) echo this sentiment.Thanks for the insult!!LOL I would not be caught dead watching FOX NEWS.I get mine from satellite dish and the Economist ,African Digest. and other national and international periodicals.I don't claim to know.I have been to Paris just not far out.Although I did my own research to verify what they say is true and apparently there is truth if not all some.Maybe like here it depends on whose perspective it comes from.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by afonega1

Actually i have a Belgium and French tenants that live with me.The French guy is half Algerian.They and some Senegalese students that lived there(PARIS) echo this sentiment.Thanks for the insult!!LOL I would not be caught dead watching FOX NEWS.I get mine from satellite dish and the Economist ,African Digest. and other national and international periodicals.I don't claim to know.I have been to Paris just not far out.Although I did my own research to verify what they say is true and apparently there is truth if not all some.Maybe like here it depends on whose perspective it comes from.

I might also add that when the French students that I have rented to come with the notion that the majority of blacks are poor.This not true by a long shot.It is double that of whites at around 24%.Like the rest of America the greatest number of blacks are in the middle classes.The poverty rate in America is 12-15%.They also have wrong info about our health care system and how it works do to watching and promoting documentaries like "SICKO".Not saying it is perfect but it not all true what is commonly believed.

[Minato ku]

Sorry for the insinuation of Fox News.
Many French are not aware of the real case.
In France banlieue have the reputation of bad public council estate but in reality the large majority are middle class detached housing or dense urban district (wealthy, middle class or poor).
Even in the news, I never see an artcile of the reality of Paris life.

Of course like in USA black and Arab have a highest poverty rate than white but it is not for this case that the majority are not poor.
Saying that a ghetto in Detroit is the average for black is as wrong. It is the same for black in France, the average is no way the public council estate in Clichy sous Bois (the poorest municiplaity in Paris).
This bad representation of black and arab in the media increase the racial discrimination in jobs.

Anyway now the number of black white colar, policemen and tv anchor really incresead in these previous years.
If you see the black and arab at whole the situation improved of lot but unfortunely without any change in the worst district.

France is not the hell for minority, it has bad point (jobs discrimination) and good point (mixed races relation are more common than in most country)

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by Minato ku

Sorry for the insinuation of Fox News.
Many French are not aware of the real case.
In France banlieue have the reputation of bad public council estate but in reality the large majority are middle class detached housing or dense urban district (wealthy, middle class or poor).
Even in the news, I never see an artcile of the reality of Paris life.

Of course like in USA black and Arab have a highest poverty rate than white but it is not for this case that the majority are not poor.
Saying that a ghetto in Detroit is the average for black is as wrong. It is the same for black in France, the average is no way the public council estate in Clichy sous Bois (the poorest municiplaity in Paris).
This bad representation of black and arab in the media increase the racial discrimination in jobs.

Anyway now the number of black white colar, policemen and tv anchor really incresead in these previous years.
If you see the black and arab at whole the situation improved of lot but unfortunely without any change in the worst district.

France is not the hell for minority, it has bad point (jobs discrimination) and good point (mixed races relation are more common than in most country)

No i did not mean to insinuate that it was.If i did my apologies.However I have been on the offensive a lot from my french friends and we both tend to be a tad over zealous in defending our ways of life.You must admit,that there is a very loud undertone of against the American institutions,way of life that is beyound just being critical to at many times just mean spirited.I understand the war and our current President has caused much of this but i guess it is what it is.I remind people that on both occasions he won narrowly.There is at least half of the voting public that wants us to become better leaders.

[norcalmom101]

Why don't you just move south?

[cunparis]

I didn't want to interrupt the discussion, but I'd like people to try to keep on subject here. If you want to discuss the difference between poverty levels and test scores of different ethnicities for example, it'd be helpful to compare it between France & the US (or other countries).

Originally Posted by norcalmom101

Why don't you just move south?

I consider this often. The problem is that down south:

- there are very few IT jobs. For what I do, almost all the jobs are in Paris and there is fierce competition for the few jobs in the south.

- I haven't found an American style school in the south (I'm still looking). Part of my reasons for wanting to return to the US are to avoid the French school system.

[cunparis]

Yesterday my coworker & I were walking back from lunch and we were crossing the street when a big minivan comes along and wasn't going to stop to let us cross. So we stopped and the car ended up about 1 feet from us. So I took my fist and hit the side of the car, kind of to say "what out next time".

The car stops, backs up so I approach the car. The woman puts the window down and starts yelling at me for hitting her car. She says I don't have to hit the car. I say you almost hit us and you're very dangerous. And she says "yes but you don't have to it the car!".

This is very common in Paris (both not letting pedestrians cross and not admitting fault). I'm extremely paranoid to cross the street now. I can't imagine how dangerous it is for the children.

[pigeonhole]

The car stops, backs up so I approach the car. The woman puts the window down and starts yelling at me for hitting her car. She says I don't have to hit the car. I say you almost hit us and you're very dangerous. And she says "yes but you don't have to it the car!".

This is very common in Paris (both not letting pedestrians cross and not admitting fault). I'm extremely paranoid to cross the street now. I can't imagine how dangerous it is for the children.

Exactly : I've been many times witness of exactly this kind of road rage.
In case you doubt it, Parisians (of whatever origin) are NOT in the majority what I would call "nice people", they are overall a NASTY lot (I know it, I've been living there for 50 years, but I admit I've got some issues here).
And there is something very irrational about the way of driving : usually when cars get near a Pedestrian Xing, they ACCELERATE , trying to pass before the light turns red, even if there are pedestrians trying to cross; on the other hand, they STOP (creating mini traffic jams) when pedestrians (themselves an undisciplined lot)cross OUTSIDE Pedestrian Xings!
There is no way to explain this behaviour.
It's just plain stupid and dangerous.